Tony Pauline: Panthers infatuated with Will Grier, will consider him at #47

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, emcannon said:

Bold statements, Mr. Scot. You just stepped right on out on that limb. I admire your bravery.  

That's because I'm not obsessed with being Miss Cleo and telling everybody "see I called it" like a lot of people on here are.

You've got guys who make a dozen predictions, eleven of which fall flat but when one comes even halfway true they swing their dick around like they're a prophet. I'm not interested in playing that role.

What's gonna happen will happen. Talking about what could happen makes for interesting conversation. Denying that what you don't want to happen is actually possible is just silly.

[Johnny Rockets]

I haven't been on here much recently but has it been brought up that since 2011, the Panthers are the only team in the league to not draft a QB? 92 QB's have been drafted since then with some teams even drafting 5 or 6. Heard that a few weeks ago and found it interesting if it's true. 

[MasterAwesome]

I’m very confused by this version of @Mr. Scot. He is perpetually one of the most vocal critics of the roster moves of our FO, and now it’s all “It appears this is what the Panthers’ organization wants to do. No use in complaining about it”. All of a sudden you are so trusting of the judgment of our FO?

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I’m very confused by this version of @Mr. Scot. He is perpetually one of the most vocal critics of the roster moves of our FO, and now it’s all “It appears this is what the Panthers’ organization wants to do. No use in complaining about it”. All of a sudden you are so trusting of the judgment of our FO?

There are two very important words in play here: Could" and "Should".

They don't mean the same thing, and talking about one doesn't imply that you're using the other.

[falconidae]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's my opinion that the Panthers might believe that.

Said it already: I've believed for a while now that the Panthers are going to take a quarterback in this draft. I don't know who and I don't know what round it will be in. Grier in the second is one possibility, and it's the possibility that's getting the most chatter, but it's not the only one.

If it had been up to me, I would have gone after a veteran backup. The Panthers didn't choose to do that, believing instead of that drafting one was the better option. They might turn out to be right, they might turn out to be wrong, we'll see.

The only thing I find utterly ridiculous is suggesting that they just take their chances. You can throw away a season in Madden, but not in the real world.

Really can't see how drafting a 2nd round QB is going to help this year if Cam goes down for the season, or for that matter, a couple of games.  

Panthers are like most teams, if their starting QB goes down for the year, gonna get ugly. Don't see a rookie QB making a difference.

If they draft Grier [or whoever] and he turns out to be a stud who saves the season after Cam goes down and/or becomes his replacement in a couple of years, sure great move. Odds are severely stacked against that happening.

The odds are so poor that I can't see it happening. There have been 49 second round QBs chosen since the merger [from PFR draft finder]. There are 2 HOFers- Brees and Farve,  a few more that were decent and about 40 that weren't. The odds are about 1 in 25 of getting a great QB. A little better on getting a so-so QB, but not by much. There's a ton of dreck on that list.

And, both Brees and Favre would be first rounders in today's NFL-Brees was 32nd pick, when there was only 30 teams, Favre was 33rd pick, but some team would have picked him late first round to use the 5th year option on him.

Seriously, look at the list on the other side of the link, Lomax, Plummer, Jaworski & Dalton are some of the best names left after the big two. You bring the next Andy Dalton to replace Cam, people are NOT going to be happy.

Maybe you find the next Brees, much more likely you find the next Geno Smith.

And the odds only go down after the second round. Rounds 3-7 are just QB wastelands with the random Wilson and Brady thrown in. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, falconidae said:

Really can't see how drafting a 2nd round QB is going to help this year if Cam goes down for the season, or for that matter, a couple of games.  

Panthers are like most teams, if their starting QB goes down for the year, gonna get ugly. Don't see a rookie QB making a difference.

If they draft Grier [or whoever] and he turns out to be a stud who saves the season after Cam goes down and/or becomes his replacement in a couple of years, sure great move. Odds are severely stacked against that happening.

The odds are so poor that I can't see it happening. There have been 49 second round QBs chosen since the merger [from PFR draft finder]. There are 2 HOFers- Brees and Farve,  a few more that were decent and about 40 that weren't. The odds are about 1 in 25 of getting a great QB. A little better on getting a so-so QB, but not by much. There's a ton of dreck on that list.

And, both Brees and Favre would be first rounders in today's NFL-Brees was 32nd pick, when there was only 30 teams, Favre was 33rd pick, but some team would have picked him late first round to use the 5th year option on him.

Seriously, look at the list on the other side of the link, Lomax, Plummer, Jaworski & Dalton are some of the best names left after the big two. You bring the next Andy Dalton to replace Cam, people are NOT going to be happy.

Maybe you find the next Brees, much more likely you find the next Geno Smith.

And the odds only go down after the second round. Rounds 3-7 are just QB wastelands with the random Wilson and Brady thrown in. 

Again, two things in play here, and it's indicated in the post you quoted.

There's what they should do and what they could and/or are most likely going to do.

The option I would have chosen is likely off the table at this point. The option the Panthers at least for now appear to have chosen could work, but might not.

As fans, we're certainly going to hope it does whether we believe in it or not. And trust me, this won't be the first time I'll be in that position.

[falconidae]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Again, two things in play here, and it's indicated in the post you quoted.

There's what they should do and what they could and/or are most likely going to do.

The option I would have chosen is likely off the table at this point. The option the Panthers at least for now appear to have chosen could work, but might not.

As fans, we're certainly going to hope it does whether we believe in it or not. And trust me, this won't be the first time I'll be in that position.

Well,  my point is that it's so unlikely that taking a QB at 47 would make a difference that they shouldn't consider doing that at all. And that, I'd be really surprised [ and happy] if they did that.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Well,  my point is that it's so unlikely that taking a QB at 47 would make a difference that they shouldn't consider doing that at all. And that, I'd be really surprised [ and happy] if they did that.

Maybe, but it could turn out to be a great move too. Stranger things have happened.

I would add that I also hope your team screws up badly on every single pick they make 

[falconidae]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Maybe, but it could turn out to be a great move too. Stranger things have happened.

I would add that I also hope your team screws up badly on every single pick they make 

It would be a very strange thing though.  My guess would be that, even if they made that pick and Cam went down [ not advocating for that to happen mind you], that they'd sign a vet  QB to finish the season.

And, understand, I'd prefer every pick the panther made had the same odds of success as a QB at 47.

 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, falconidae said:

And, understand, I'd prefer every pick the panther made had the same odds of success as a QB at 47.

Understood.

Of course, it goes without saying that you're an a--hole 

[Sgt Schultz]

I am hoping they don't go down this path, at least for the stated reason of having a solid backup to keep the ship steaming forward (not just upright) if Cam goes down.  But, I am skeptical of this year's QB class providing us someone who could be expected to step in this year and lead a team to big things or salvage the season.  I'm not even convinced our #16 pick could garner a potential 2019 starter and I would not want it used for that this year, anyway.  Next year looks to be a better draft pool for that.

If the goal is to have a playoff run in 2019 even if Cam goes down, they should have seriously considered a veteran FA, although the cap situation may have precluded that.  None of those available look like long-term solutions, but the argument for drafting Grier in the 2nd rather than addressing some other needs seems more dependent on finding a potential short-term solution, anyway.  They could still find a serviceable, experienced backup when cuts start happening.

Grier may be a perfectly good NFL QB someday, I just don't think it will be by week 9 of next year (or any random week number).  Now that equation may change if the real concern is whether Cam is on the roster after 2020.  IMO, Grier makes more sense as a potential insurance policy to that concern.  I'm still not sure he would be my pick for that vs. some potential 2020 pick, but that at least makes more sense.

[panthers55]

14 hours ago, Trill OG said:

I don't see why we would take a QB in round 2. Unless the FO have no faith in Cam returning to his old self. Otherwise this would be a wasted pick. If Cam is done they better be certain Grier can be that franchise QB, otherwise we will be looking for another QB in round 1 next year.

You don't waste a 2nd round pick without knowing the future of Cam. I don't buy we are seriously thinking about picking him in round 2.

I sure we are looking at it. The problem is Cam started out the year fine last year and struggled late in the year. How do we know regardless of how he is now, if the shoulder holds up all year. If we are picking one next year we will be convinced that Grier wasn't the guy. Rather than regretting that decision and sticking with it they will pick again as they should. And every year after that until we get our franchise guy. Given the importance of a QB, you aren't wasting picks trying to find your guy. Sure it is great finding one the first time but with the high rate of busts in the NFL, it is inevitable you win some and lose some.

[Mr. Scot]

30 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

I am hoping they don't go down this path, at least for the stated reason of having a solid backup to keep the ship steaming forward (not just upright) if Cam goes down.  But, I am skeptical of this year's QB class providing us someone who could be expected to step in this year and lead a team to big things or salvage the season.  I'm not even convinced our #16 pick could garner a potential 2019 starter and I would not want it used for that this year, anyway.  Next year looks to be a better draft pool for that.

If the goal is to have a playoff run in 2019 even if Cam goes down, they should have seriously considered a veteran FA, although the cap situation may have precluded that.  None of those available look like long-term solutions, but the argument for drafting Grier in the 2nd rather than addressing some other needs seems more dependent on finding a potential short-term solution, anyway.  They could still find a serviceable, experienced backup when cuts start happening.

Grier may be a perfectly good NFL QB someday, I just don't think it will be by week 9 of next year (or any random week number).  Now that equation may change if the real concern is whether Cam is on the roster after 2020.  IMO, Grier makes more sense as a potential insurance policy to that concern.  I'm still not sure he would be my pick for that vs. some potential 2020 pick, but that at least makes more sense.

When I heard the Panthers talking early in the offseason about how they needed to ensure they addressed the backup quarterback position this year, I thought two things were going to happen.

One, they'd sign a veteran backup for insurance.

Two, they'd draft a young guy to develop as a possible successor to Cam Newton.

The Panthers have apparently decided that they want one guy who fits both of those roles.

Now admittedly, any time you can get one guy coach who checks two boxes, it's to your benefit...

...if it works.

[steven8989]

2 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

I fear that New England will spend 32 on Grier and just continue their dynasty another 10-12 years with him at the helm.

Yep im with u dude. These people on here are terrible. I've seen enough and think he will be that good as well.