Don't believe that this is a weak WR class!

[Sub Zero]

1 hour ago, doogy902 said:

in what world is this WR class weak? 

This one.. Just like last year 1 maybe 2 WR will be 1st round picks.. The best WR in the class (ranking wise) is only getting hyped off his combine because he literally didn't produce in college.. And his route tree experience looks like a stick.. There is not a for sure day one plug and play starter in this class.. Every prospect will need development  time.. The strength in this class is the middle rounds.. That's why most ppl think it's a weak class there isn't a elite clean prospect in the group.. No Julio, No Megatron,  Not even a Fitzgerald..

[Sub Zero]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

Just because I support my opinions very well doesn't mean I am trying to pass them off as fact. The fact that you don't realize that your opinion isn't any more valid than mine speaks to your own insecurity. At least you aren't necessarily trying to pass your opinion off as fact but calling mine "bs opinions," sounds dangerously close to doing so, and it is akin to some other know-it-alls on the Huddle who obviously can't handle people disagreeing with them even with rational arguments. 

Don't be a hater! You are  better than that, right?

Back it up than?? Name 1 team who went into a season with 1 experience vet (more than 3 years experience) and the rest of the group young (less than 3 years).. You said teams only need 1.. So tell me who has done that?? And been successful??

I'll give you a example the other way.. 2016 Panthers secondary  how did that workout??

[Sub Zero]

19 minutes ago, Pi = 3.1SHutYoMouth! said:

So if we get this WR in say 1st round or 2nd, how much will he contribute?  We have two pass-catching tight ends, arguably the best pass-catching RB in the league, Two talented young receivers, a reliable slot receiver, and one decent veteran when healthy. 

I don't understand how ppl don't recognize this either.. We already got alot of mouths to feed in this offense... We only play with 1 ball..

[doogy902]

27 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

This one.. Just like last year 1 maybe 2 WR will be 1st round picks.. The best WR in the class (ranking wise) is only getting hyped off his combine because he literally didn't produce in college.. And his route tree experience looks like a stick.. There is not a for sure day one plug and play starter in this class.. Every prospect will need development  time.. The strength in this class is the middle rounds.. That's why most ppl think it's a weak class there isn't a elite clean prospect in the group.. No Julio, No Megatron,  Not even a Fitzgerald..

Well I wouldn't call it weak just because there's no "elite" prospect that check every box. It's sure as hell as deep as any WR class I can remember

[Peppers90 NC]

I would be pretty excited if we somehow landed Harry in the 2nd, but I dont see that happening. Would feel better about OL/DL and Safety first two picks.

[MHS831]

7 hours ago, top dawg said:

I think that it's a little ironic that people don't seem to realize that the probability that we do move on and ultimately use or recoup our 5 mil is if we draft a young and exciting receiver that's actually worth a damn. That's probably the only way that happens, not drafting a so-called "project," or investing in a retread like Crabtree. 

I  was not speaking in generalities concerning Smith.  His contributions do not equate to $300K+ per game.  I differ--I do not see playing an unproductive retread as anything more than blocking a "project" from playing time to develop.  For example, in 2017 Damiere Byrd had 10 catches for 120 yards.  In 2018, Torrey Smith had 17 catches for 190 yards.  I would rather play the young guy at a discount of over $4m and hope he improves instead of trying to squeeze some glory years out of Smith's career.  Interesting dilemma all teams face, but my statement was prefaced with "I wonder if..." which should excuse it from becoming a positional proclamation--if it  came off that way, it was not the intent.

[ChibCU]

8 hours ago, MHS831 said:

I still say (if  we keep Smith) he will be improved in 19.  He is a deep ball threat, and when the QB can't throw it past the LBs, it takes a lot away from the cushion and the deep fear factor.   Notice that when Cam started showing signs of his injury, Smith went to the bench.   

I don't think that Torrey Smith has recently shown to be a deep threat:

2016: 13.4 yards/reception

2017: 11.9 yards/reception

2018: 11.2 yards/reception

All of those are career lows. You don't expect one's yards/reception averages to increase in their later years. That notion needs to be squashed and if anyone in the front office believes that... they are who we thought they were.

[Sub Zero]

11 minutes ago, doogy902 said:

Well I wouldn't call it weak just because there's no "elite" prospect that check every box. It's sure as hell as deep as any WR class I can remember

Then what would you call it?? If a class doesn't have clean elite prospects and lacks in 1st round talent.. If you compare it to the D and Olinemen class how does it rank.. I'm just saying not every year is a position group strong.. Every group has down years.. This year is WR's and RBS next year it might be Oline and Secondary.. Every year just by the nature of the draft can't  always be strong..To have a strong class at a position you need.. elite prospects, a few 1st round guys under that teir and some deep development talent in the middle and late rounds.. This year the WR class is deep with development talent in the middle and late rounds.. So its weak in comparison to other positions..

[MHS831]

I can't believe there are personal attacks based on the depth of WR in this draft.  I think WR is weak at the top--not worth the first round pick,  but as we drop, there are some potential gems.   The kid from Wake in the sixth, for example, could become a camp casualty or he could catch on.  If we keep aging veterans on the decline then we will not have a chance to find out.   With Samuel and Moore and Thomas and CMC and Olsen and even Wright---this is a great opportunity to grab a late rounder with upside and see what is there.  That is not really something I want to argue about and drag mothers and wives into it....

[MHS831]

9 minutes ago, ChibCU said:

I don't think that Torrey Smith has recently shown to be a deep threat:

2016: 13.4 yards/reception

2017: 11.9 yards/reception

2018: 11.2 yards/reception

All of those are career lows. You don't expect one's yards/reception averages to increase in their later years. That notion needs to be squashed and if anyone in the front office believes that... they are who we thought they were.

Well, not really, but in this offense, that was to be his role.  "Threat"
means "fear"---you have to respect the speed, which keeps a S back, more cushion underneath for Smith and others---that opens things up.  How many deep balls do you  hit in a season?  4-5?  Not enough to make a huge dent in the statistics.  However, if they are respecting his deep threat, he should be catching more than 17 balls in a season.  When they knew Cam could not throw, Smith was not a threat because he can't catch and he does not run great routes.  I don't like him, and I hear "locker room guy," and crap like that.  Good for him.

I am not saying Smith will be a stud--I prefaced my comment, "If we keep Smith," assuming they have $5m worth of need for him.  Thanks for the stats thought; I would have thought he averaged around 15 per catch for his career.  These are close to TE numbers.

[d-dave]

I think this WR class is better than some think, and not as great as other think.  It's an interesting group, that's for sure.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/kelly--full-2019-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-rankings

This is a really good breakdown of the WR class.  I think my favorite is Hakeem Butler.  If he was sitting there in the 3rd, I'd take him.  He's got all of the tools to become an elite NFL WR.  He can bend in ways that Metcalf just can't.  Josh Norris and Evan Silva has raging chubs for him, and I don't blame them.

I could see the Panthers taking a WR in the 3rd or later.  I'd like to see some pass rushers and OL depth come out of this draft.  Another solid WR would be a useful addition for depth.

[Sub Zero]

6 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I can't believe there are personal attacks based on the depth of WR in this draft.  I think WR is weak at the top--not worth the first round pick,  but as we drop, there are some potential gems.   The kid from Wake in the sixth, for example, could become a camp casualty or he could catch on.  If we keep aging veterans on the decline then we will not have a chance to find out.   With Samuel and Moore and Thomas and CMC and Olsen and even Wright---this is a great opportunity to grab a late rounder with upside and see what is there.  That is not really something I want to argue about and drag mothers and wives into it....

I agree with your general point.. But I don't see a problem having a experienced vet as depth for our outside WR positions.. Especially for 5 mil which in the big scheme of things not alot to pay for experienced depth..

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, d-dave said:

I think this WR class is better than some think, and not as great as other think.  It's an interesting group, that's for sure.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/kelly--full-2019-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-rankings

This is a really good breakdown of the WR class.  I think my favorite is Hakeem Butler.  If he was sitting there in the 3rd, I'd take him.  He's got all of the tools to become an elite NFL WR.  He can bend in ways that Metcalf just can't.  Josh Norris and Evan Silva has raging chubs for him, and I don't blame them.

I could see the Panthers taking a WR in the 3rd or later.  I'd like to see some pass rushers and OL depth come out of this draft.  Another solid WR would be a useful addition for depth.

Yes--this draft is great for us at WR--we do not need much.  I wonder if Marty goes big WR to replace Funchess?  If so, Sills from WVU is a bit attractive on day 3, for example. 

[MHS831]

1 minute ago, Sub Zero said:

I agree with your general point.. But I don't see a problem having a experienced vet as depth for our outside WR positions.. Especially for 5 mil which in the big scheme of things not alot to pay for experienced depth..

I see both sides---however---Smith's "decline" could be due to other variables--I  am not sure he is washed up yet.  I respect what you are saying--but we are talking about a #4 WR at this point--$5m is a bit pricey for that, imo.  I go back and forth, but that is because I am not close enough to the situation to feel strongly one way or another.  If the decision were mine, I would have cut  him (17 receptions, 190 yards; $5m) and go with a young WR who can return kicks.  I really like the kids from WF and UNC late.