Panthers have spent "considerable time" with Will Grier

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Allen is a lot more known than any QB in the draft. I don't think he's our answer as Cam's successor and I'm all for trying to upgrade that spot, I just hope we don't force it and I hope we don't look past better prospect at other positions of need to take a stab at a QB we may or may not even need.

I'm not sure one game under unusual circumstances equals "known".

I think drafting a QB (Grier or other) with a higher pick could actually be a good idea given our general situation.

Now that's the hypothetical.

The reality is you still have to make the right pick, at the right time, with it being the best player available, and other solid draft choices, etc etc etc.

Obviously, none of that is guaranteed.

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Valid question that (putting my GM hat on) has a complicated answer.  IF is the key word--IF Cam is "done", we would not tip our hand now.  IF his shoulder is OK, they won't know for sure until it has lasted an entire season.  Is there such a thing as a developmental QB any more?  IF they do not know, then you build your OL and defense (our plan, it seems) and squeeze in a game manager.  Grier is very smart and can learn quickly (if needed in his rookie season) and manage games.  To me, that is what they are doing. 

IF Cam plays well this season and next, has he progressed from a big, running, inaccurate  QB to a 31-year old pocket passer?  Will he be worth $30m in 2021?  If Grier is developing and we do not need a stud athlete at QB, we need a smart, accurate game manager like Brees--is that an option we might make?

Grier give us options if Cam is healthy or if he is not.  The best strategy imo is to protect the qb and surround him with weapons and a good D. 

We are really in the dark. Many will be upset that I suggest post-Cam options, but that is the real world and it gives you options.

 

All of this is valid.

Again, we're not solely talking about Grier, but I agree with what you said about him.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not sure one game under unusual circumstances equals "known".

I think drafting a QB (Grier or other) with a higher pick could actually be a good idea given our general situation.

Now that's the hypothetical.

The reality is you still have to make the right pick, at the right time, with it being the best player available, and other solid draft choices, etc etc etc.

Obviously, none of that is guaranteed.

It doesn't equal known, but that's one more game and a LOT more practices than any QB in the draft.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It doesn't equal known, but that's one more game and a LOT more practices than any QB in the draft.

Granted, but he wasn't kept around a lot last season either. Heck, had Newton not been hurt, we might not have even brought him back.

[LinvilleGorge]

The biggest thing I'll take from a potential QB draft pick is what it likely indicates our thoughts toward Cam's shoulder are.

4th or later, we're probably feeling pretty confident that Cam is going to bounce back fine.

3rd, we're probably 50/50 and definitely want to hedge our bets.

2nd, we're feeling pretty doubtful.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Granted, but he wasn't kept around a lot last season either. Heck, had Newton not been hurt, we might not have even brought him back.

Which doesn't give me a lot of faith in our QB evaluation. Taylor looked head and shoulders better than Heinicke.

[MHS831]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

All of this is valid.

Again, we're not solely talking about Grier, but I agree with what you said about him.

I think the first rounders who  would be expected to start very soon (Murray, Lock, Haskins, and Jones) are a very weak group.  However, our offense (with CMC, Samuel, Moore) has evolved from a downfield passing attack to a short attack that puts the ball in the hands of playmakers sooner.  Cam is not the best fit for that, imo.  The QBs in the middle rounds (Grier, Finley, Stidham, and Thorson) could develop into solid backups in this offense--who knows?  There could be a gem.

[Ricky Spanish]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The biggest thing I'll take from a potential QB draft pick is what it likely indicates our thoughts toward Cam's shoulder are.

4th or later, we're probably feeling pretty confident that Cam is going to bounce back fine.

3rd, we're probably 50/50 and definitely want to hedge our bets.

2nd, we're feeling pretty doubtful.

I personally disagree and wouldn't read into it too much.

Could just be that the QB taken in the 2nd is rated leaps and bounds higher than everyone else on our board. 

It's why we double dipped at DT in 2013 and why we took Luke top 10 with Beason and TD already on the roster. 

We go hard on who we believe is BPA. I have learned to accept this. If a QB is taken at 47 by us, I will assume he was #1 remaining on our board. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

The biggest thing I'll take from a potential QB draft pick is what it likely indicates our thoughts toward Cam's shoulder are.

4th or later, we're probably feeling pretty confident that Cam is going to bounce back fine.

3rd, we're probably 50/50 and definitely want to hedge our bets.

2nd, we're feeling pretty doubtful.

I agree, and MHS is right that prior to the draft, any thing we put out about Newton might not exactly be gospel.

Honestly, I think part of the problem many have in the discussion here (not necessarily you, LG) is that they're more focused on what they want to happen than what actually could happen.

Drafting a quarterback high likely does mean the Panthers are less optimistic about Newton recovering and having a happy ending than they've previously let on. Some folks may not want to accept that this could be true, but the reality is not only that it can but also that a lot of the evidence could be pointing in that direction.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I think the first rounders who  would be expected to start very soon (Murray, Lock, Haskins, and Jones) are a very weak group.  However, our offense (with CMC, Samuel, Moore) has evolved from a downfield passing attack to a short attack that puts the ball in the hands of playmakers sooner.  Cam is not the best fit for that, imo.  The QBs in the middle rounds (Grier, Finley, Stidham, and Thorson) could develop into solid backups in this offense--who knows?  There could be a gem.

All possible.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Which doesn't give me a lot of faith in our QB evaluation. Taylor looked head and shoulders better than Heinicke.

I don't have a lot of faith in our player evaluation in general, but that's not exactly a new thing.

As far as last year, I actually thought Garrett Gilbert looked better than Taylor Heinicke.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Cracka McNasty said:

I personally disagree and wouldn't read into it too much.

Could just be that the QB taken in the 2nd is rated leaps and bounds higher than everyone else on our board. 

It's why we double dipped at DT in 2013 and why we took Luke top 10 with Beason and TD already on the roster. 

We go hard on who we believe is BPA. I have learned to accept this. If a QB is taken at 47 by us, I will assume he was #1 remaining on our board. 

Look at the current situation though. In 2013, Gettleman had just been hired by an owner who was the opposite of trigger happy to make a change. He knew he was safe. He wasn't acting out of desperation in the least and we had HUGE needs at DT.

In hindsight, I think drafting Luke absolutely indicated our thoughts regarding Beason's health and what eventually played out on the field indicated those thoughts were spot on.

I think Hurney and Rivera know they need to win. They're not looking to spend a premium pick on a guy if it's likely he's not going to see the field.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't have a lot of faith in our player evaluation in general, but that's not exactly a new thing.

As far as last year, I actually thought Garrett Gilbert looked better than Taylor Heinicke.

Same.

I feel like Heinicke's better mobility was the primary deciding factor there and I didn't necessarily agree with that. You're not going to find a guy to replicate Cam's mobility. Any backup QB we have is likely going to require some degree of tweaking to the offense.

[Paa Langfart]

2 hours ago, TheRed said:

What a bitter turd.

lol.  pot meets kettle