The Combine and why it matters...

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Didn’t have time to go through all these guys combines and in come cases the info wasn’t available but in Bells case, the place that makes him special and where he wins... that sudden stop and start patience ability of his. His 3 cone or stop and  start 6.75, would have been number one in this years class of running backs at the combine. The numbers are usually there.

I think what's going to come out is the primary thing that makes Bell win is that Steelers offense. Every RB they put on the field looks like Le'Veon Bell.

[Sub Zero]

11 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

If that was the case why even do the rest? why are people like sapp  stock dropping after runnning 4.76... combine helps people like Sweat or hurts people like ur guy. Combine numbers have been used to success to find plenty of hidden gems. Savvy coach doesn't "just rely on tape" of course you want to see success stats and production, but production can be skewed by outside factors. Injuries,scheme,coach, and players around the prospect your looking at. That mentality is very old school.

Again the combine athletic part is only used to confirm or dispute the tape you already have on a player in his college career.. It is part of the process but not the most important part..

Let's be very clear players spend 3 months after the season preparing to show good numbers in the combine.. They go to different training facilities and practice these drills over and over and over only to do them 1 time in their lives . Once it's over they never run those drills again.. Do you ever see them doing any of this poo in TRAINING CAMP?? NO... So please stop trying to make this more important than it truly is..

Perfect example of how the combine should work..

 

 

As a scout Miles Combine will have me going back to his tape asking questions.. 

1. Where is that 4.42 on the field??

2. Why aren't you more fluid on the field?

3. You should be creating more separation with the combine numbers because I see alot of contested  catches on tape.. Why??

This look like a player who worked harder on these drills than he did during season.. Miles has the production.. But I don't see the type of athlete on tape I see at the combine..

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, Sub Zero said:

Again the combine athletic part is only used to confirm or dispute the tape you already have on a player in his college career.. It is part of the process but not the most important part..

Let's be very clear players spend 3 months after the season preparing to show good numbers in the combine.. They go to different training facilities and practice these drills over and over and over only to do them 1 time in their lives . Once it's over they never run those drills again.. Do you ever see them doing any of this poo in TRAINING CAMP?? NO... So please stop trying to make this more important than it truly is..

Perfect example of how the combine should work..

 

 

As a scout Miles Combine will have me going back to his tape asking questions.. 

1. Where is that 4.42 on the field??

2. Why aren't you more fluid on the field?

3. You should be creating more separation with the combine numbers because I see alot of contested  catches on tape.. Why??

This look like a player who worked harder on these drills than he did during season.. Miles has the production.. But I don't see the type of athlete on tape I see at the combine..

I agree with your premise. The idea that the combine is all that matters isn’t what I’m trying to prove. My point is it works both ways. It can help you find players you wouldn’t have spotted otherwise as well. Before the combine nobody knew who George Kittle was and now he’s breaking league records and is probably the top tight end in the league. His athletic profile or sparq was higher than the 90th percentile.

Yes people can train and prepare for the combine but if I trained 8 years of my life for it I might improve, but I just don’t have the god given ability to run faster than tyrek hill or Boykin. Some people are just born with more. If everyone is preparing for the combine then I don’t get your point such as it levels the playing field and scores such basically stay the same since were all improving.

Then there is the this is just for tv crowd, the combine and all its info was private for the longest. I believe Mel Kiper said this is the first year he has been allowed to even go to the combine in person. If we just went off Tape and production would D.K Metcalf have a shot in hell at being a first rounder? I don’t think Bosa would either.

The tape lets you see where a players strengths are that’s what you look for not just production, the combine verifies those strengths, not just the 40. The other drills are probably more important. The Article is the combine and why it matters. Not why it’s the only thing that’s important.

[Eazy-E]

12 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

Ideally thats the perfect scenario,But if we go by your metrics bosa wouldnt be the number one player in this draft...Its more than that. Some players are system guys or college stat stuffers... Plenty of pass rushers have better numbers than Bosa. I think you go to the tape you find traits in what makes a guy unique rare or special and the combine helps verify that.

It’s not just numbers. There are plenty of other on field things scouts look at that don’t stuff a stat sheet.

You do know that Bosa was named the best D linemen in the big 10 his sophomore year right?

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, Eazy-E said:

It’s not just numbers. There are plenty of other on field things scouts look at that don’t stuff a stat sheet.

You do know that Bosa was named the best D linemen in the big 10 his sophomore year right?

Yes but why? It wasn’t just the stats.and again those accolades don’t mean success in the league, micheal sam was sec player of the year and all American. A lot of people are like “I would just take such and such he had 15 sacks”.  I feel the combine helps reaffirm why he had 15 sacks. What made him so difficult to stop.

[Eazy-E]

1 hour ago, micnificent28 said:

Yes but why? It wasn’t just the stats.and again those accolades don’t mean success in the league, micheal sam was sec player of the year and all American. A lot of people are like “I would just take such and such he had 15 sacks”.  I feel the combine helps reaffirm why he had 15 sacks. What made him so difficult to stop.

I really don’t know I’m not an NFL scout. I personally just go by the eye test. I don’t care much about combine numbers. But like I said before, if he happens to be a beast on the field and tears up the combine that’s always a plus.

[micnificent28]

21 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

I really don’t know I’m not an NFL scout. I personally just go by the eye test. I don’t care much about combine numbers. But like I said before, if he happens to be a beast on the field and tears up the combine that’s always a plus.

Agreed. I don’t disagree with your rational. My post basically was for the this is a dog an pony show for ratings people. 

[Proudiddy]

I dont think many people read through the article.  They found specific drills that were indicators of success from 1st rounders to undrafted guys...  when it came to OLInemen, Matt Paradis is even up there.  It shows that if these guys surpassed a certain number for that drill, they essentially were career-long starters.  Jason Kelce was in the same group.  So, if it was all about whether they produced and the combine didn't matter at all, then why weren't Kelce and Paradis first round picks?

They found similar predictors for edge rushers.

And they also pointed out the case of Julian Edelman - a college QB.  And yet, based off his 40 and vertical, who would anticipate him being a dominant WR in any aspect?  But, when they looked at his short shuttle and 3 cone, it was an incredible predictor of what he became.

It also mentions how some teams have certain criteria they don't compromise which are indicators of success in the pros.  For instance, the Seahawks will not draft any DB with arms shorter than 32".  Look at the never-ending supply of competitive DBs they churn out.

So, there is something to it...

[Proudiddy]

It also made a point to not write off average athletes when combining all of their results into a metric like Sparq.  But, they also said if a player is far below average, then the SPARQ rating tends to be fairly relevant...  which reminded me of how someone posted Gaulden's after we drafted him last year and it was atrocious.  So, don't hold your breath on him lol.

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

It also mentions how some teams have certain criteria they don't compromise which are indicators of success in the pros.  For instance, the Seahawks will not draft any DB with arms shorter than 32".  Look at the never-ending supply of competitive DBs they churn out.

So, there is something to it...

Part of that is due to their scheme. Cover 3 teams generally prefer longer CBs. 

[Proudiddy]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Part of that is due to their scheme. Cover 3 teams generally prefer longer CBs. 

Yeah, I mean scheme plays its role in it, but that's what I'm getting at too...  Edelman fit what the Patriots were looking for.  When they compared his combine numbers to other receivers in the past, none were noteworthy or even memorable on the list, except for Deion Branch.  They had similar measureables.  So, teams like the Pats and Seahawks are so successful, in part, because their criteria of what they're looking for allows them to focus their efforts on a scouting a smaller number of player, and the specificity of what they're looking for allows them to be great at finding what they want for their system.

And with the Seahawks, they also mentioned how bc of their criteria, they were able to draft Tre Flowers, a safety in college, and then successfully move him to corner and start him as a rookie.  I wish Marty could learn their ways when it came to that.

[JARROD]

the combine matters. It’s freakin serious

[LinvilleGorge]

2 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

Yeah, I mean scheme plays its role in it, but that's what I'm getting at too...  Edelman fit what the Patriots were looking for.  When they compared his combine numbers to other receivers in the past, none were noteworthy or even memorable on the list, except for Deion Branch.  They had similar measureables.  So, teams like the Pats and Seahawks are so successful, in part, because their criteria of what they're looking for allows them to focus their efforts on a scouting a smaller number of player, and the specificity of what they're looking for allows them to be great at finding what they want for their system.

And with the Seahawks, they also mentioned how bc of their criteria, they were able to draft Tre Flowers, a safety in college, and then successfully move him to corner and start him as a rookie.  I wish Marty could learn their ways when it came to that.

I'm just not a big fan of hardline parameters when evaluating prospects. It's a good way to miss out on a good player because he didn't check some arbitrary box.

One scout was quoted regarding Donte Jackson last year that he'd fight for him if he could but he didn't meet his team's minimums height/weight requirements. Imagine if the Panthers had a 5'10" minimum height requirement for WRs in 2001. No Smitty.

[The Huddler]

19 hours ago, Sub Zero said:

The Combine most important part is the medical and the interviews... The rest is only use to confirm the tape or make you go back to the tape and do more analysis..

gettleman, is that you?