Josh Norris and J-rod talk the perfect Pass Rusher at 16

[panthers55]

6 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Peppers, 4th in the NFL in career sacks, 17 year veteran and likely first ballot Hall of Famer is not work giving up several players?

Uhhhhhh.....wut?

Two questions?  Did we really miss him that much when he left and did any team he play on win a Super Bowl.?  Sure he was a great player but his stats were built over 17 years of good performance he wasn't such a force he single handedly changed everything. And to give up a whole slew of picks, he should be.

[kungfoodude]

49 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Two questions?  Did we really miss him that much when he left and did any team he play on win a Super Bowl.?  Sure he was a great player but his stats were built over 17 years of good performance he wasn't such a force he single handedly changed everything. And to give up a whole slew of picks, he should be.

That is the most nonsensical criteria I have ever heard.

[BrianS]

11 hours ago, t96 said:

Not going to happen but if teams got infatuated with QBs and two went first and second and then Jets took Oliver over Bosa, I’d be on the phone immediately to trade up to #4 to get Bosa. Based on this value chart, for this year only it would take our 2nd, both 3rds and our 5th to get there. That would be well worth it for Bosa without giving up any future assets. Would hurt to not be able to get multiple day 1 and 2 players but man would Bosa be an insanely huge addition to our D.

Giving up your entire draft for one player NEVER works out well.  For instance, eight of our 22 starters last year were Panthers draft picks outside the first round, while another seven starters last year were Panthers first round picks.  In all, two thirds of our starting players were our own picks from rounds 1 and 2.  Finally, 17 of our 22 starters were first or second round picks of their respective teams.

Your team is built in the draft.  You can't give it up for one player.  Most especially, you need to keep your first two picks and take them well.

[Camp Fodder]

12 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

I’m not so sure.. this is hurney we’re talking about. He has traded up numberous times before, Jonathan Stewart, Armanti,Everett Brown, and he attempted to trade up for Derwin James last year. I think Hurney gets antsy when he sees his favorite guys about to fly off the board.

Trading up for James wouldn’t have been a bad move

[Camp Fodder]

11 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

I feel like we would just middle of the roads it again like we did this year next year. Unless we look at qb next year is next years class better than this one? Your looking at this draft from the perspective of a fan and looking to the future of the panthers.

For Rivera there might not be a tomorrow so to hell with burning the future is probably his mindset. He has to atleast make the playoffs. One of those teir 2 guys might be the only way he does that.

Agreed. Marty and Rivera will be closely evaluated this year so they may be willing to take some uncalculated risks

[micnificent28]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

You assume that the guy you mortgage the future for will be all world and that isn't a guarantee either. . Plus as has been mentioned already who says the guy you get at 16 will be so much worse than the guy you mortgage your future to get. Let's assume you give up all your present picks this draft  to move up a dozen spots . Who would you miss in the second? A great free safety? What about in the third? Your next quarterback.?  What else do you give up?  While you say it has to be Gaulden or CAP, it could be Donte Jackson and Ian Thomas. Or in past drafts it could be Tom Brady or a less crazy Greg Hardy who were both 6 rounders.  

You assume that the 4th best edge rusher is so much worse than the second best edge rusher in a draft loaded with edge rushers. I disagree totally. Mortgaging your future on a single pick rarely works out and is a poor and desperate strategy that most teams reserve for quarterbacks not edge rushers in a deep draft. You can justify the strategy all day. Thankfully Hurney is hopefully done mortgaging our future over one pick. If we were one player away you could make a case but we have needs at many positions for depth which is what I hope  any rookie becomes this year..

You have to take all current knowledge of the depth and what’s there into account. As has been stated by many there is a clear difference in the teir 2 guys and the guys in the 3rd teir. Teir 2 would be the high end potential guys who fail but have a higher ceiling than those guys in. Smart coaches know when to make said move like I have said of the saints and Davenport last season.

saints don’t have a first this season and I bet they would do it again, Davenport was a high risk move thought to be a unproven entity but had size and speed 6’6 265 4.5 40. He was the end of the teir 2 guys saints knew it was him or bust at that point moved from way back in the 20s to 14.

I’m not even saying move that far or give up a future first. I bet to move up from day 16 to 11-12 to sang a teir 2 guy(Burns, Oliver, Gary) it wouldn’t take but a 3 maybe a 5 or so? That’s not Morgaging the future. Thats having smart business plan where you make sure your first round pick has a higher chance at being a game changer. We traded a 3 and a 5 i wanna say some later pick last year anyway.

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That is the most nonsensical criteria I have ever heard.

If you are going to give up a bunch of players for one guy, he better be the good enough to get you over the top. 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, micnificent28 said:

You have to take all current knowledge of the depth and what’s there into account. As has been stated by many there is a clear difference in the teir 2 guys and the guys in the 3rd teir. Teir 2 would be the high end potential guys who fail but have a higher ceiling than those guys in. Smart coaches know when to make said move like I have said of the saints and Davenport last season.

saints don’t have a first this season and I bet they would do it again, Davenport was a high risk move thought to be a unproven entity but had size and speed 6’6 265 4.5 40. He was the end of the teir 2 guys saints knew it was him or bust at that point moved from way back in the 20s to 14.

I’m not even saying move that far or give up a future first. I bet to move up from day 16 to 11-12 to sang a teir 2 guy(Burns, Oliver, Gary) it wouldn’t take but a 3 maybe a 5 or so? That’s not Morgaging the future. Thats having smart business plan where you make sure your first round pick has a higher chance at being a game changer. We traded a 3 and a 5 i wanna say some later pick last year anyway.

At least you are settling into reasonable territory and not mortgaging the farm. Watch what happens. I bet we can get a tier 2 edge rusher at 16. If not keep the pick at 16 and pick at a different position  where you can get a top tier free safety or another position. If you have to draft one position no matter what you usually end up reaching.

 

[mc52beast]

Don’t see Hurney giving up multiple draft picks to obtain one tier one guy. We have too many holes to fill and not enough good FA’s.

[heel31ok]

6 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I still think he will be an above average player in the NFL. I am okay with taking him, but if we could trade back a little lower and get him, that would be better.

So take Dillard...then maybe get him in 2nd...I'm not as hot and heavy for DE early anyways ...I just dont think Ferrell is just avg... he's a good player and would play up to 16th pick value...

[kungfoodude]

4 hours ago, panthers55 said:

If you are going to give up a bunch of players for one guy, he better be the good enough to get you over the top. 

Yes, because this is the NBA. 

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Yes, because this is the NBA. 

Another irrelevant comment from the peanut gallery. Way to be consistent.

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, heel31ok said:

So take Dillard...then maybe get him in 2nd...I'm not as hot and heavy for DE early anyways ...I just dont think Ferrell is just avg... he's a good player and would play up to 16th pick value...

Yeah, I would not be against taking Dillard. It gives up a potential path forward if Williams cannot get healthy.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Another irrelevant comment from the peanut gallery. Way to be consistent.

The sad part is that you don't even realize how incredibly ludicrous your arguments are.