Josh Norris and J-rod talk the perfect Pass Rusher at 16

[heel31ok]

From where we pick Ferrell would be a good pick but I'd prefer to go with Dillard ...then say Savage...we could get help at DE later ...I think who we have is good for where the D is headed...I don't see DE as the do or die situation some seem to think it is...

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I doubt we move up. There is virtually no one out there worth giving up the majority of our picks for. One of the strengths of a 3-4 hybrid is bringing pressure from multiple positions and confusing the other which suggests we don't need to give all of our draft picks for a dominant guy. We need several very good players who are versatile and can rush the passer, play in space and play the run. 

Good as Peppers was, he wouldn't have been worth giving up several players to obtain. We will get a very good player at 16.

Peppers, 4th in the NFL in career sacks, 17 year veteran and likely first ballot Hall of Famer is not work giving up several players?

Uhhhhhh.....wut?

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, micnificent28 said:

So one year of peppers having 2.5 sacks voids being 4th all time in sacks? Most gms would take that with no questions asked. Thing is there isn't as many Talents as we thought there was. After the first round its a crap shoot as always. What value do we normally get out of 3-7? Mayo,Gaulden,Hall,Artis Payne,That standford rb the patriots poached from us? Having a bunch of crap picks isn't always as productive as nailing that one high pick you have. I would give up a 3-5 to land a superior talent with a higher success rate. Than hope we find Antonio Brown or Tom Brady Later. Hurney Nails first round picks, it's what he does best. In most scenarios your looking at the 4th-5th best edge rusher at 16. Is that gonna get us over the hump? I dout it. at 16 and there are 22 player on offense and defense you should be getting atleast one of the top 2 players at some position. I would rather go to another position all together than force the 4-5th best edge at that point. your basically forcing a need.

Bruce Smith had a year with 1.5 sacks and Kevin Greene once had a year with zero sacks. HOF pass rushers are garbage, man. You can't see that?

[kungfoodude]

54 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

From where we pick Ferrell would be a good pick but I'd prefer to go with Dillard ...then say Savage...we could get help at DE later ...I think who we have is good for where the D is headed...I don't see DE as the do or die situation some seem to think it is...

We definitely need help at DE but I don't think we should start reaching at 16 if there are better players available. If there doesn't appear to be good value at 16, maybe trade back and grab Ferrell or another player. 

[heel31ok]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

We definitely need help at DE but I don't think we should start reaching at 16 if there are better players available. If there doesn't appear to be good value at 16, maybe trade back and grab Ferrell or another player. 

How far do you think he would fall...16 would be best chance if that was the pick...

[micnificent28]

Just now, heel31ok said:

How far do you think he would fall...16 would be best chance if that was the pick...

There is a reason isn't mocked to anyone but us... He isn't on the same scale of potential as the other guys... I could see him there 20 or so...maybe further.

[micnificent28]

2 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

How far do you think he would fall...16 would be best chance if that was the pick...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2019-nfl-mock-draft-bills-get-quinnen-williams-patriots-take-two-tes-and-a-qb-redskins-load-up-on-offense/ hes at least 24 here.

[heel31ok]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/three-round-2019-nfl-mock-draft-bills-get-quinnen-williams-patriots-take-two-tes-and-a-qb-redskins-load-up-on-offense/ hes at least 24 here.

CBS is the worst ...

[heel31ok]

Overall Ferrell right in the middle of first rd...

[micnificent28]

14 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

Overall Ferrell right in the middle of first rd...

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/sikkema-s-2019-nfl-mock-draft-7.0 here he is at 31.....

[kungfoodude]

41 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

How far do you think he would fall...16 would be best chance if that was the pick...

I don't really know. It only takes one team to have him graded higher than the rest to matter. In my personal opinion, I see him as a 16-32 guy. High floor, low ceiling player that can potentially be an above average pass rusher and stalwart in run support for 6-8 years or more. It is really going to depend on what Carolina is looking at getting out of this draft. 

That's one of the big problems with projecting, there are a lot of variables to crunch picking at 16. You really have to just set up your board and see what comes your way.

[micnificent28]

47 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't really know. It only takes one team to have him graded higher than the rest to matter. In my personal opinion, I see him as a 16-32 guy. High floor, low ceiling player that can potentially be an above average pass rusher and stalwart in run support for 6-8 years or more. It is really going to depend on what Carolina is looking at getting out of this draft. 

That's one of the big problems with projecting, there are a lot of variables to crunch picking at 16. You really have to just set up your board and see what comes your way.

I agree with this evaluation. I just dont care for low ceiling kind of players. I don't think he will be horrible..Just average.

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

I agree with this evaluation. I just dont care for low ceiling kind of players. I don't think he will be horrible..Just average.

Yeah, I still think he will be an above average player in the NFL. I am okay with taking him, but if we could trade back a little lower and get him, that would be better.

[panthers55]

7 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

So one year of peppers having 2.5 sacks voids being 4th all time in sacks? Most gms would take that with no questions asked. Thing is there isn't as many Talents as we thought there was. After the first round its a crap shoot as always. What value do we normally get out of 3-7? Mayo,Gaulden,Hall,Artis Payne,That standford rb the patriots poached from us? Having a bunch of crap picks isn't always as productive as nailing that one high pick you have. I would give up a 3-5 to land a superior talent with a higher success rate. Than hope we find Antonio Brown or Tom Brady Later. Hurney Nails first round picks, it's what he does best. In most scenarios your looking at the 4th-5th best edge rusher at 16. Is that gonna get us over the hump? I dout it. at 16 and there are 22 player on offense and defense you should be getting atleast one of the top 2 players at some position. I would rather go to another position all together than force the 4-5th best edge at that point. your basically forcing a need.

You assume that the guy you mortgage the future for will be all world and that isn't a guarantee either. . Plus as has been mentioned already who says the guy you get at 16 will be so much worse than the guy you mortgage your future to get. Let's assume you give up all your present picks this draft  to move up a dozen spots . Who would you miss in the second? A great free safety? What about in the third? Your next quarterback.?  What else do you give up?  While you say it has to be Gaulden or CAP, it could be Donte Jackson and Ian Thomas. Or in past drafts it could be Tom Brady or a less crazy Greg Hardy who were both 6 rounders.  

You assume that the 4th best edge rusher is so much worse than the second best edge rusher in a draft loaded with edge rushers. I disagree totally. Mortgaging your future on a single pick rarely works out and is a poor and desperate strategy that most teams reserve for quarterbacks not edge rushers in a deep draft. You can justify the strategy all day. Thankfully Hurney is hopefully done mortgaging our future over one pick. If we were one player away you could make a case but we have needs at many positions for depth which is what I hope  any rookie becomes this year..