Josh Norris and J-rod talk the perfect Pass Rusher at 16

[micnificent28]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article228682794.html

 

I find this to be a very good read. It is telling on what to look for at 16 and some key themes to look at when evaluating a prospect. Ultimately the thinking is we need better production in one on one matchups. Generally the better athlete wins in the contested situations. Their are a few possibilities here and I would be willing to move up to have our choice of one of these guys. 

The saints went all in for a shot to jump up at the pass rusher they coveted.. Devenport probably isn’t as talented as a lot of these kids(he was a top athlete last year though)but the saints said I will give up 2 first rounders. How much are you willing to give up to have your choice of the second tier guys?

[carolinapanther]

It is a good read. I don't think they will move up nor give anything up. No matter what, no player is guaranteed. So that is a big risk to take!

[micnificent28]

14 minutes ago, carolinapanther said:

It is a good read. I don't think they will move up nor give anything up. No matter what, no player is guaranteed. So that is a big risk to take!

I’m not so sure.. this is hurney we’re talking about. He has traded up numberous times before, Jonathan Stewart, Armanti,Everett Brown, and he attempted to trade up for Derwin James last year. I think Hurney gets antsy when he sees his favorite guys about to fly off the board.

[carolinapanther]

Just now, micnificent28 said:

I’m not so sure.. this is hurney we’re talking about. He has traded up numberous times before, Jonathan Stewart, Armanti,Everett Brown, and he attempted to trade up for Derwin James last year. I think Hurney gets antsy when he sees his favorite guys about to fly off the board.

Very tru!

[Black&BlueBubba]

Let’s hope H2.0 has learned his lesson. 

[Reebis21]

I feel like Hurney has to have recognized how this offseason has been such a breath of fresh air compared to his first tenure. He’s done such a good job at being patient and making sound moves without overspending. I would imagine he might be willing to apply that same logic when it comes to the draft this year in terms of not trading up. Not to mention he has seen what happens when u try to fill a need by overloading on it it in the draft (3 CBs following Norman’s departure). 

With all that said, this could very well be Hurney and Ron’s last year if things don’t go their way. How many times in any sport, have we seen GMs make drastic moves just to prolong their own job? 

[micnificent28]

2 minutes ago, black-panthers said:

So we’re fugged? 

Depends on what your willing to give up. I wouldn’t want to be the one in this position. But if my job is on the line either way I’m going with the best chances for success this season. I don’t think tepper is a patient man.

 

[t96]

19 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Depends on what your willing to give up. I wouldn’t want to be the one in this position. But if my job is on the line either way I’m going with the best chances for success this season. I don’t think tepper is a patient man.

 

Not going to happen but if teams got infatuated with QBs and two went first and second and then Jets took Oliver over Bosa, I’d be on the phone immediately to trade up to #4 to get Bosa. Based on this value chart, for this year only it would take our 2nd, both 3rds and our 5th to get there. That would be well worth it for Bosa without giving up any future assets. Would hurt to not be able to get multiple day 1 and 2 players but man would Bosa be an insanely huge addition to our D.

[micnificent28]

14 minutes ago, t96 said:

Not going to happen but if teams got infatuated with QBs and two went first and second and then Jets took Oliver over Bosa, I’d be on the phone immediately to trade up to #4 to get Bosa. Based on this value chart, for this year only it would take our 2nd, both 3rds and our 5th to get there. That would be well worth it for Bosa without giving up any future assets. Would hurt to not be able to get multiple day 1 and 2 players but man would Bosa be an insanely huge addition to our D.

Lol I am a gambling man.. but even I think that’s kinda steep. Most of our fellow huddlers  are probably conservative and are already mad at the idea you just posted as well. But looking at what we do know about Hurney I think he’s not afraid to make the big moves. If we believe that the trade value chart is true. 

He was sniffing around moving from 25 to about 15-16 to get James. Based on the chart he couldn’t have called offering anything less than a second round pick for a safety. Are you telling me he wouldn’t considering atleast that or more if say  Gary or Oliver are there at say 12? A premier pass rusher isn’t worth the same effort? I don’t think Hurney is in a position to sit back and watch the draft happen to him.

low job security little chance for success in over taking the saints for the crown, I think he’s got to be all in.If that means trading up for a better preminum player or trading down to get more peices to plug more holes, just waiting seems like you think you will have a long term future here.

[micnificent28]

3 minutes ago, black-panthers said:

Im not trading up. Rivera fugged us. 

Atm, we look like a top 6-10 pick team in 2020. We need as many picks as possible. I rather trade back.

I feel like we would just middle of the roads it again like we did this year next year. Unless we look at qb next year is next years class better than this one? Your looking at this draft from the perspective of a fan and looking to the future of the panthers.

For Rivera there might not be a tomorrow so to hell with burning the future is probably his mindset. He has to atleast make the playoffs. One of those teir 2 guys might be the only way he does that.

[panthers55]

I doubt we move up. There is virtually no one out there worth giving up the majority of our picks for. One of the strengths of a 3-4 hybrid is bringing pressure from multiple positions and confusing the other which suggests we don't need to give all of our draft picks for a dominant guy. We need several very good players who are versatile and can rush the passer, play in space and play the run. 

Good as Peppers was, he wouldn't have been worth giving up several players to obtain. We will get a very good player at 16.

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

I doubt we move up. There is virtually no one out there worth giving up the majority of our picks for. One of the strengths of a 3-4 hybrid is bringing pressure from multiple positions and confusing the other which suggests we don't need to give all of our draft picks for a dominant guy. We need several very good players who are versatile and can rush the passer, play in space and play the run. 

Good as Peppers was, he wouldn't have been worth giving up several players to obtain. We will get a very good player at 16.

You don't believe a hall of fame player wasn't worth giving up several picks for? I couldn't name 3 other people in his draft class. If the talent your getting hits no one will question what you gave up to obtain them. History as shown no is complaining about what the Eagles gave up for Wentz,or the cheifs for Mahomes, or the Saints and Davenport. I wouldn't have given up 2 first round picks for Davenport,but they did and it worked out. I think Gary,Oliver, and Sweat are superior to him coming out of college as prospects.I would give up a 2 easily, anything after that would be later. And our later picks normally turn into gaulden or something. I can do with out more picks if your getting just roster guys in return.

[panthers55]

12 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

You don't believe a hall of fame player wasn't worth giving up several picks for? I couldn't name 3 other people in his draft class. If the talent your getting hits no one will question what you gave up to obtain them. History as shown no is complaining about what the Eagles gave up for Wentz,or the cheifs for Mahomes, or the Saints and Davenport. I wouldn't have given up 2 first round picks for Davenport,but they did and it worked out. I think Gary,Oliver, and Sweat are superior to him coming out of college as prospects.I would give up a 2 easily, anything after that would be later. And our later picks normally turn into gaulden or something. I can do with out more picks if your getting just roster guys in return.

Remember the year Peppers had 2 sacks? I do.  Glad you aren't the GM. If there were only a few DE talents and we were reaching that is one thing. But we will get a stud at 16 and still keep our picks. There are few can't miss picks. 

[micnificent28]

15 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Remember the year Peppers had 2 sacks? I do.  Glad you aren't the GM. If there were only a few DE talents and we were reaching that is one thing. But we will get a stud at 16 and still keep our picks. There are few can't miss picks. 

So one year of peppers having 2.5 sacks voids being 4th all time in sacks? Most gms would take that with no questions asked. Thing is there isn't as many Talents as we thought there was. After the first round its a crap shoot as always. What value do we normally get out of 3-7? Mayo,Gaulden,Hall,Artis Payne,That standford rb the patriots poached from us? Having a bunch of crap picks isn't always as productive as nailing that one high pick you have. I would give up a 3-5 to land a superior talent with a higher success rate. Than hope we find Antonio Brown or Tom Brady Later. Hurney Nails first round picks, it's what he does best. In most scenarios your looking at the 4th-5th best edge rusher at 16. Is that gonna get us over the hump? I dout it. at 16 and there are 22 player on offense and defense you should be getting atleast one of the top 2 players at some position. I would rather go to another position all together than force the 4-5th best edge at that point. your basically forcing a need.