Mission this offseason was to fix the trenches..

[panthers55]

Just now, Sub Zero said:

Most teams picking in the top 20 have more than 2 needs.. So no I'm talking more than 2 positions.   What QB at 16 helps you this year if Cam gets hurt Really?? None.. So is it even worth it unless you're moving on from Cam.. And there is no RB replacing all the things Cmac does on this offense.. And there are alot of Cheap vet options on the street so yes a RB at 16 would be considered a luxury pick.. Like I said I like BPA thing in reason.. Butler and Shaq prove that..

The point is folks are talking DE and OT like they are the only choices.  Also could a quarterback who was the second or third QB taken start this year if Cam went down? Maybe not although Allen showed us this was a pretty quarterback friendly offense with no starting experience. Luxury pick suggests they are extra or not needed. What happens if heaven forbid CMC gets hurt and we could have picked a Kamara type guy in the third? Still luxury pick?  I wouldn't have called Shaq or Butler the BPA so that isn't a great comparison. I think their lack of production confirms they were only BPA in Gettleman's mind.

[Sub Zero]

14 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

The point is folks are talking DE and OT like they are the only choices.  Also could a quarterback who was the second or third QB taken start this year if Cam went down? Maybe not although Allen showed us this was a pretty quarterback friendly offense with no starting experience. Luxury pick suggests they are extra or not needed. What happens if heaven forbid CMC gets hurt and we could have picked a Kamara type guy in the third? Still luxury pick?  I wouldn't have called Shaq or Butler the BPA so that isn't a great comparison. I think their lack of production confirms they were only BPA in Gettleman's mind.

Ppl are doing that because they are so many of them in this draft.. Every scout, every talking head and every coach is saying the same thing about this draft.. This is the best draft in decades for trench players.. The Dline is stacked with at least 20 to 30 early round options.. The Oline has a good amount of actual left Tackles (which happens every 5 years)  add in alot of interior blockers and this is what you get.. You plan your actions by what the draft is giving you.. This isn't a great draft for Skill positions players (outside of safeties) this is a big guy draft.. 

If Cam went down we lose no matter what rookie you put in.. Just my opinion but that's closer to reality.. The QBS in this draft aren't like last years this is a weak draft for QB'S.. So no it wouldn't  be needed unless we play the Saints 3rd string every week ..

There isn't a Kamara in this draft sorry .. This is a weak class for RB as well .. The better option is in FA like Crowell if you need a back up RB.. Picking one before Cmac gets hurt is s luxury pick..

Go back and look at the grades and value.. Most Analysts had them as great value picks even thoe we probably wouldn't use them right away.. Which is exactly what happened..

If you're not looking for a day one starter or somebody who could push a older player out for starting job in the 1st or 2nd round.. You're making luxury picks..

[top dawg]

4 hours ago, stbugs said:

I think I’d rather have DT first over LT. LT in this draft is not a certainty for any of the tackles. Most are RTs or might be Gs or “might” work at LT. I like a few of the day 2/early day 3 tackles who have potential but wouldn’t waste pick 16 as a backup or as a not good enough for LT. We don’t want a Luke Joechel, gotta try him at guard guy. I’d rather have Wilkins and be able to save a poo ton of cap next year. Short and Poe releases combine to open up $20-24m, yes $20-24m in cap space and we are already at $47m in cap space (with Paradis and without Kalil). We’d be over $70m without those two so I won’t mind Wilkins at all.

People say this crap every year. If Jonah Williams is there, I'd pick him. He's a technician. The ONLY question that some people have about him are his arms being considered a tad short (which is overblown, as there are successful LTs in the NFL with short arms). Williams was good before his senior season, and he improved upon that. There's never a certainty at any position, but Williams is about as certain a prospect at his position as any of the DEs or DTs. Real talk!

[top dawg]

Cody Ford has a lot of the traits to be a great LT too. It's up to the scouts and the FO to make.the determination  if they think that this will translate to the pros (which is very possible).

[panthers55]

20 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Ppl are doing that because they are so many of them in this draft.. Every scout, every talking head and every coach is saying the same thing about this draft.. This is the best draft in decades for trench players.. The Dline is stacked with at least 20 to 30 early round options.. The Oline has a good amount of actual left Tackles (which happens every 5 years)  add in alot of interior blockers and this is what you get.. You plan your actions by what the draft is giving you.. This isn't a great draft for Skill positions players (outside of safeties) this is a big guy draft.. 

If Cam went down we lose no matter what rookie you put in.. Just my opinion but that's closer to reality.. The QBS in this draft aren't like last years this is a weak draft for QB'S.. So no it wouldn't  be needed unless we play the Saints 3rd string every week ..

There isn't a Kamara in this draft sorry .. This is a weak class for RB as well .. The better option is in FA like Crowell if you need a back up RB.. Picking one before Cmac gets hurt is s luxury pick..

Go back and look at the grades and value.. Most Analysts had them as great value picks even thoe we probably wouldn't use them right away.. Which is exactly what happened..

If you're not looking for a day one starter or somebody who could push a older player out for starting job in the 1st or 2nd round.. You're making luxury picks..

Agree with you about the DLine folks. There are many and I would bet we take one in the first 2 rounds.  And I really doubt we would take a QB in the first given by 16 there may be 2 or 3 taken. Hardly a BPA. But I think we will draft a quarterback this year. Not knowing how things will work out I wouldn't have a clue where in the draft or who would be there. Kamara wasn't Kamara until he surpassed all expectations. He made it to the third round for a reason.

I hope no rookie starts for us unless he is so phenomenal it is a no brainer and they are clearly mature beyond their years. I was fine with Moore easing into his role and now getting ready to explode this year. Watching behind a vet can be extremely helpful seeing things from a different perspective so when you do get in, you can play fast right away. How many years did we go to the playoffs with multiple rookie starters? Now how many times have we made the playoffs with Vet jags at several positions. Experience is the equalizer.

[Sub Zero]

13 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Agree with you about the DLine folks. There are many and I would bet we take one in the first 2 rounds.  And I really doubt we would take a QB in the first given by 16 there may be 2 or 3 taken. Hardly a BPA. But I think we will draft a quarterback this year. Not knowing how things will work out I wouldn't have a clue where in the draft or who would be there. Kamara wasn't Kamara until he surpassed all expectations. He made it to the third round for a reason.

I hope no rookie starts for us unless he is so phenomenal it is a no brainer and they are clearly mature beyond their years. I was fine with Moore easing into his role and now getting ready to explode this year. Watching behind a vet can be extremely helpful seeing things from a different perspective so when you do get in, you can play fast right away. How many years did we go to the playoffs with multiple rookie starters?

Agree to disagree..

Your thinking worked 20 years ago.. But now with the salary being the way it is.. You should always be looking for day 1 starters early pushing the older and bloated contracts off your books.. If you are always looking for development players you are taking a risk in getting the value out of them.. By the time the player is ready to be a full time contributor you have to pay them.. Which is the lame situation we are in with Shaq ..

[ecu88]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Outside of Lindstrom, it’s reasonable. Just put the best guard available and it’s still a great draft. 

Oh that was run through fanspeak, just after is who I think could be but it is still a dream draft lol l.

 

Sweat, DE/OLB; alt: if he is not there then Sweat and if both gone Ford OT/OG

Adderley, S

Saunders, NT

Scharping, OT/OG; alt: if top DE are gone, Ben Banogu, DE/LB

K. Hodge, OLB

J. Cominsky, DE/DT

Fields, CB

 

 

[heel31ok]

3 hours ago, Sub Zero said:

We got a LT coaching staff just needs to let him play LT..

Nope...can't take a chance standing pat at LT...

[Sub Zero]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

You are entitled to your opinion, I won’t call it crap. I just disagree. I watched the championship and actually paid attention to him and wasn’t that impressed against Ferrell. If he was as certain as any prospect he’d be in consideration for the top pick. You value him more than most and I’d take a bunch of DL over him.

Another reason why I don't understand ppl starting to hate Ferrell.. Jonah is a good player and will be a solid starter for 10 years.. And Ferrell got in his ass..

 

[Sub Zero]

14 minutes ago, heel31ok said:

Nope...can't take a chance standing pat at LT...

That's your opinion.. Moton is experienced smart and every bit ready to be a LT than anybody in this draft.. All we need is a young developmental OT and we can get that later in the draft.. After signing Williams the OT thing became less of a need and more of a want..

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

You are entitled to your opinion, I won’t call it crap. I just disagree. I watched the championship and actually paid attention to him and wasn’t that impressed against Ferrell. If he was as certain as any prospect he’d be in consideration for the top pick. You value him more than most and I’d take a bunch of DL over him.

The only DL really in consideration for the top pick is Bosa. 

The fact is that in most of the mocks that I've seen, Williams is going to be off the board when we pick, so you saying that I "value him more than most" is highly inaccurate. I've seen one where he was our pick, and another where the Falcons pick him right after us (with us picking Sweat, which I could live with). So, again, what you're saying is inaccurate. Williams is certainly not out of the question if he is still on the board, and I would bet that any national analyst and NFL type would be on board with the pick. Real talk!

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, Sub Zero said:

Agree to disagree..

Your thinking worked 20 years ago.. But now with the salary being the way it is.. You should always be looking for day 1 starters early pushing the older and bloated contracts off your books.. If you are always looking for development players you are taking a risk in getting the value out of them.. By the time the player is ready to be a full time contributor you have to pay them.. Which is the lame situation we are in with Shaq ..

Way overblown analysis. Rookies need to play as their production and value to the team increase to offset their mistakes and limitations of technique. Of course you want to find contributors as rookies. But you want to play them because they are the best of several good options rather than the only decent guy you have so you have little choice.  It didn't take years for guys like McCaffrey and Moore to contribute.. They weren't expected to be starters right away simply contributors. And that means  that you have veterans at all the important positions to start the season.  Let the rookies rotate in as they learn the playbook and build chemistry with the team.  This isn't Madden. Players have a learning curve which differ by the individual.  Everyone should play as they show they are the best option. It isn't something to agree or disagree. It is common sense.

[kungfoodude]

24 minutes ago, top dawg said:

The only DL really in consideration for the top pick is Bosa. 

The fact is that in most of the mocks that I've seen, Williams is going to be off the board when we pick, so you saying that I "value him more than most" is highly inaccurate. I've seen one where he was our pick, and another where the Falcons pick him right after us (with us picking Sweat, which I could live with). So, again, what you're saying is inaccurate. Williams is certainly not out of the question if he is still on the board, and I would bet that any national analyst and NFL type would be on board with the pick. Real talk!

A lot of people have Williams projected to slide inside to OG. I am okay with him as a potential OT/OG guy. At worst, maybe you end up with an upgrade over Van Roten/Larsen at LG.

[Sub Zero]

11 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Way overblown analysis. Rookies need to play as their production and value to the team increase to offset their mistakes and limitations of technique. Of course you want to find contributors as rookies. But you want to play them because they are the best of several good options rather than the only decent guy you have so you have little choice.  It didn't take years for guys like McCaffrey and Moore to contribute.. They weren't expected to be starters right away simply contributors. And that means  that you have veterans at all the important positions to start the season.  Let the rookies rotate in as they learn the playbook and build chemistry with the team.  This isn't Madden. Players have a learning curve which differ by the individual.  Everyone should play as they show they are the best option. It isn't something to agree or disagree. It is common sense.

Yes they were.. I was expecting Moore to be a contributor his 1st year and he was and if Rivera wasn't crazy CMC would have been the main RB way before he was..

Again  agree to disagree.. If I'm not drafting a guy in the 1st or 2nd round I think can start at some point his rookie year.. I failed.