Smith doesn't care what naysayers say

[top dawg]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's still a question I have yet to see anybody really answer.

Most of the Smith defense has been "well, his salary isn't guaranteed and we can still cut him".

But if we don't, and his veteran salary becomes guaranteed as of week one, will you still be praising this as a good deal?

First of all, I don't see anything as a defense, just reasonable business as usual where defense isn't even really necessary. Now to answer your question...

Of course some of that will depend upon what happens before then. Even after that, he could ball out (relatively speaking), and that would make it look like a great deal.

All I know is that a few minutes ago on NFLN's Free Agency Frenzy, they were talking about how receivers like Tyrrell Williams and Cole Beasley would likely get paid north of 9 and 10 mil. If that's the case, then it supports the belief that Smith's salary is even a good deal right now.

[steven8989]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Dude, I’m sure you are a Hurney fan, but you are just deflecting. Kalil should be gone. Why isn’t he? Shaq needs a contract that works better under the cap or just suck it up and see if you want him after this year. Poe sucks and I’d love to cut him as well and I think Wilkins or Lawrence May be BPA at 16 and a perfect opportunity to dump him. Short has been really good except for last year. His contract is such that I’d move on next year.

All that said, this discussion is about Smith and his contract makes me sick because it is a waste. Starting last year he was in play before Moore and Samuel and heck even Wright showed that they are all much better. For the same money, I’d probably even rather have Funchess. Fast forward to the “finally healthy” one year older and clearly backup Smith and you have to move one. $5m is above average WR2 money not WR4 on a lower half passing offense.

Sometimes you have to actually move on and this is an easy decision. We need the money. Kalil is an even easier decision because we need something better and we need to make the team work harder to get it. Throw in Searcy and you have Trey Flowers or Mathieu and Paradis.

This is the Panthers we are talking about even if we had the money we would not get any of those guys. Nobody wants to come to this team with Rivera/Hurney running poo. Look they can't even get a 34 yr old Weddle in here that's played under Rivera. Until Tepper finally shows the brass balls that I heard everyone say he had before he took over, we are always going to be a SD charger type team. Always play good one year and bad the next. Same core players but never consistent.

[steven8989]

57 minutes ago, top dawg said:

First of all, I don't see anything as a defense, just reasonable business as usual where defense isn't even really necessary. Now to answer your question...

Of course some of that will depend upon what happens before then. Even after that, he could ball out (relatively speaking), and that would make it look like a great deal.

All I know is that a few minutes ago on NFLN's Free Agency Frenzy, they were talking about how receivers like Tyrrell Williams and Cole Beasley would likely get paid north of 9 and 10 mil. If that's the case, then it supports the belief that Smith's salary is even a good deal right now.

They actually can catch a ball throwed to them. Also stats last two years. Tyrell Williams 9 tds 1200 yds, Cole Beasley 7 tds 1000 yds and no hands Smith 4 tds almost 700. Yeah I would pay more for the other two's production. U might want to want look at stats before u bring up worth imo.

[raz]

there's a lotta if's in this thread.  if the one trick pony old man gets his trick back.....

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Yeah, I'd be feeling pretty good about my life situation if some GM had just agreed to pay me $5M for two touchdowns and 190 yards of production.

[top dawg]

11 minutes ago, steven8989 said:

They actually can catch a ball throwed to them. Also stats last two years. Tyrell Williams 9 tds 1200 yds, Cole Beasley 7 tds 1000 yds and no hands Smith 4 tds almost 700. Yeah I would pay more for the other two's production. U might want to want look at stats before u bring up worth imo.

How about you take into account extenuating circumstances like injury and snap counts (for example), so that you can have comparisons that are honest and don't appear to be trying to push a square peg in a round hole?

You might want to pay near double (or more), but some may not, especially considering that we have other needs.  [See Below]

17 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Smith’s salary isn’t a good deal. There’s no way to justify $5m for WR4 on a run heavy/TE heavy offense as the 7th receiving option. He’s not a WR1 or WR2 and we aren’t a pass happy offense. There’s no way to spin it as a good deal.

What price or value is attributed to an accomplished veteran who by all accounts is an excellent locker room guy, one that played key roles in two Super Bowl wins, and one who presumably fills the need of taking the top off a defense and fits your QB's skill set?

Like I've said before, feel free to judge last season as a great indicator as what will happen this season, but I'm not looking at things from that perspective.  

[frash.exe]

the fluff usually doesn’t start until may

[steven8989]

20 minutes ago, top dawg said:

How about you take into account extenuating circumstances like injury and snap counts (for example), so that you can have comparisons that are honest and don't appear to be trying to push a square peg in a round hole?

You might want to pay near double (or more), but some may not, especially considering that we have other needs.  [See Below]

What price or value is attributed to an accomplished veteran who by all accounts is an excellent locker room guy, one that played key roles in two Super Bowl wins, and one who presumably fills the need of taking the top off a defense and fits your QB's skill set?

Like I've said before, feel free to judge last season as a great indicator as what will happen this season, but I'm not looking at things from that perspective.  

Hey bud if u pay attention to what I wrote u would see I put last two seasons. So I'm sorry it's hard to pay a guy 5 mil for that type of production and this so called good guy vet in the locker room/ wr coach. Nobody is going to win me over on that one. That has to be one of the worst excuses to just pay somebody millions. JS

[RumHam]

Be a coach then and stop taking up cap space. What a waste. Couldve had the safety

[top dawg]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Great. So when’s TD coming back for less than Smith since we need a starting LB and we don’t need a 4th WR? Lol at locker room presence and then ignoring the guy we just let go. I mean Smith’s 6 catches for 84 yards on 15 targets (40% catch rate) combined in two SBs are irreplaceable. He was 2nd in targets in both games and yet was 4th in yardage for the Ravens and 5th in yardage for the Eagles. He was the least effective WR in both games.

The hoops you guys go through to defend one bad GM over another is beyond me.

So why are we still holding on to Kalil, Searcy and Poe as well? I’m all ears.

First of all, I deal with what is. If you want to call that going through hoops to defend Hurney as opposed to just having the ability to see reasonable moves at the moment, then so be it. Tepper felt that Hurney did a job good enough to keep him around for another year, and I don't think he's crazy.

 

Smith is largely a one-trick pony, and always has been, that doesn't mean he doesn't or hasn't had value. Five mil hardly breaks the bank for a vet with his experience and skill set.

You can cherry pick stats all you like. The fact is that in both Super Bowls he made key plays that helped lead his teams to victory, and, yes, they likely lose without him. Anyone that watched the games, knows this to be true.

 

Poe may not be the best fit, sure, but is it realistic or even smart to just dump him as opposed to hoping that he'll get better or getting whatever you can out of him? Furthermore, he has trade value. 

Kalil is easy. We don't have a replacement, and Hurney obviously doesn't want to eat that dead cap which will be markedly more palatable next year. That was Gettleman's doing, no matter how you want to spin it.

Why dump Searcy? He is adequate depth (if nothing else) on a cheap contract. 

Free agency hasn't even officially begun. The draft hasn't even happened! And yet, some of you speak with such surety and feigned authority about things. Go polish those crystal balls so that you can see the future very clearly. That's right! You already know what's going to happen.

 

[top dawg]

10 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Lol. Enjoy Kalil, Smith, Poe and Searcy eating up an extra $22m in cap this year because I’m sure they’ll help us win more. Smith’s skill set of being a top dropper isn’t worth $5m.

You guys will defend to the end. I don’t recall anyone saying Torrey Smith and his 5 yards per target led either team to victory. His two QBs threw for 660 yards and 7 TDs and somehow Smith’s 84 yards and 0 TDs on 15 targets (40% catch rate) lead them to victory? That’s delusional. Yes, he did make some catches but that’s easily replaced and not they lose without him unless you think they would have played 10 guys. He didn’t make any catches like that sweet TD catch by Alshon.

This is not worth the effort. If we carry these contracts any longer (Poe’s deal sucks for as bad as he’s been but he’s at least a starter), we might as well flush next season as well or just hope again that Cam can make magic.

I didn't say that he led them to victory. I said they likely don't win without his key receptions. Simple! Furthermore, I'll tell you the same thing I told Roomers, I am not "defending" anyone, just explaining possible rationale as to why the option was exercised. I would have likely gone in another direction. Unlike you, I can't see the future. According to you and others this time last year, we were going to have a terrible draft. How did that play out?

[Khyber53]

5 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's still a question I have yet to see anybody really answer.

Most of the Smith defense has been "well, his salary isn't guaranteed and we can still cut him".

But if we don't, and his veteran salary becomes guaranteed as of week one, will you still be praising this as a good deal?

Just can't look into my crystal ball and tell ya that for sure. I can say I hope he will perform at or above his pay grade. That's all we can say about any player at this time of year.

[frash.exe]

4 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Yeah, I'd be feeling pretty good about my life situation if some GM had just agreed to pay me $5M for two touchdowns and 190 yards of production.

10 million wasted on this dude as of week 1 this september

and the same ppl bring up russell shepard like it’s the worst free agent signing in panthers history

[top dawg]

32 minutes ago, stbugs said:

So far, decent and I never panned he draft, just specific picks. How did 2017’s draft go that everyone panned due to the GM? Amazing how year 2 of a draft can change. Go back in the draft threads and you’ll see that I loved Thomas after the combine so I loved that pick. Moore was an easy pick and we got lucky that we could choose any WR. Pretty obvious from MD’s pro day that Norv wanted Moore so that was about as much of a surprise as McCaffery was the year before. Donte’s been decent but got burned way too much in the second half, so I hope he works on that. Hopefully he doesn’t turn out like Marcus Peters who got a lot of INTs his rookie year and has been getting burned a lot more lately and isn’t as good as once thought. I hated Gaulden and Haynes and still do. We made the mistake of not drafting Eddie Jackson over Hall and I think we did it again. I wanted Crosby (tackle from Oregon) instead of project part 2 in Haynes.

Anyway, that has 0 to do with Smith. IMHO Hurney has so far been awful in FA. We got nothing last year and spent as much as we did on the Kalil deal and it looks like we are doubling down. If Kalil isn’t gone, that’s on Marty now for wasting even more money. I put the first $25m on Gettleman but anything more is Marty especially when he passed over Crosby for small DE project when he knew full well that Daryl was likely to go like Norwell and Kalil was garbage. Most teams are getting rid of dead weight or high cost to be ready for FA, not us.

I have yet to see the perfect draft, and I'm sure that everyone on the Huddle can go back and say "He should have picked [this or that guy]." Bottom line, most NFL types will tell you that when you get two and certainly three starters out of a draft, you've done very well. And the story hasn't been completely written yet.

That absolute farce of a contract in its entirety is on Gettleman, and if you can't see that it has financial reverberations and considerations beyond the first couple of years that has put Hurney in a tough spot, in my opinion that's just you hating for the sake of hating in regards to Hurney. Every team's situation and the dynamics of free agency are different each year.

Just be honest, whatever Hurney does or doesn't do, you're going to hate. If he doesn't acquire your FA or draft your guy, then he's a bleeping idiot that can do no right.

By the way, Moore was far from an easy decision. He wasn't a perceived top 5 talent like Star Lotulelei that fell. Hell, he wasn't even the so-called consensus top receiver in the draft. And, Gettleman had several  "easy" picks that he didn't make.

I'm just hoping that Williams falls to us. If I'm picking, and Sweat or Gary are still on the board, I'm taking the OT. If Marty doesn't, I'm not going to call him every name in the book because he failed to pick my guy. Now admittedly, sometimes those day three picks have a tendency to piss me off more than the others, but it's day three. It is what it is. All the GMs screw up at something every draft.