This "Hybrid" Defensive Scheme

[Unionpanther]

1 hour ago, Udogg said:

He didn't the first 4 games last year. ...... 

Thank you. I've been waiting for someone to point this out.

[Unionpanther]

1 hour ago, Udogg said:

He didn't the first 4 games last year. ...... 

Thank you. I've been waiting for someone to point this out.

[panthers55]

The notion that a switch from a 4-3 to a hybrid 3-4 is that large is really overblown. It won't take 2 or 3 years to develop because it isn't a 3-4 totally but 3-4 looks particularly on passing downs using DT tackles to use a one gap or 2 gap system with linebackers to pressure or cover in space. The change is predicated on having difficulty finding enough 4-3 DE types who can rush the passer and still play a zone blitz scheme which requires some coverage skills. If I remember correctly we used more 3 rusher sets against Brees both times and shut down the short passing game. So it won't look that differently than what we used last year at times but takes advantage of the folks we have.

So the critics who say we aren't going to change much are partially right for the wrong reason. It won't be because Rivera won't change, it is because we are already changing and will continue to do so as offenses become more diverse and it becomes more difficult to find hand in the dirt DEs that do nothing but rush the passer.

[Bj-Monster23]

9 hours ago, CaliPanthers said:

Maybe something like the Seahawks. Chris Clemons is acting as the Leo a DE/OLB hybrid.

Could we use Shaq as a Will in a 4-3 scheme and move him to the Sam in the 3-4 where we could use his speed off the edge or in coverage.

 

Absolutely. A lot people say or think we don’t have the pieces to make the transition which right now is true. The biggest question is does this team really want to make that transition. I don’t see us becoming completely a 34 team but definitely more looks of it to throw teams off more. The players they look at in the draft and free agency will determine that.

 

We will know for sure if the Panthers are going to make that subtle transition by looking at or pursuing guys like Zach Allen, LJ Collier, Ben Banogu, Jachai Polite, and Brain Burns are those we could look at. 

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, Bj-Monster23 said:

Absolutely. A lot people say or think we don’t have the pieces to make the transition which right now is true. The biggest question is does this team really want to make that transition. I don’t see us becoming completely a 34 team but definitely more looks of it to throw teams off more. The players they look at in the draft and free agency will determine that.

 

We will know for sure if the Panthers are going to make that subtle transition by looking at or pursuing guys like Zach Allen, LJ Collier, Ben Banogu, Jachai Polite, and Brain Burns are those we could look at. 

One of the advantages of a 3-4 is being able to better disguise coverages and blitz looks as you have 5 guys standing close to the line of scrimmage and 3 rushing the passer. Typically offenses send someone in motion to see how the defense reacts so you can see whether they are in man or zone coverage and pull players to where the man is in motion or overload one side to get mismatches. With a 3-4 hybrid you can cover those motion guys without telegraphing what you are doing and bring blitzes from anywhere without being too obvious where is it coming from.

[davos]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

The notion that a switch from a 4-3 to a hybrid 3-4 is that large is really overblown. It won't take 2 or 3 years to develop because it isn't a 3-4 totally but 3-4 looks particularly on passing downs using DT tackles to use a one gap or 2 gap system with linebackers to pressure or cover in space. The change is predicated on having difficulty finding enough 4-3 DE types who can rush the passer and still play a zone blitz scheme which requires some coverage skills. If I remember correctly we used more 3 rusher sets against Brees both times and shut down the short passing game. So it won't look that differently than what we used last year at times but takes advantage of the folks we have.

So the critics who say we aren't going to change much are partially right for the wrong reason. It won't be because Rivera won't change, it is because we are already changing and will continue to do so as offenses become more diverse and it becomes more difficult to find hand in the dirt DEs that do nothing but rush the passer.

That’s what I’m alluding to in a way. The player types aren’t going to be changing significantly other than maybe having one guy more in a EDGE mold that we use in our 4-3 OVER looks in that Leo spot as someone screencapped.

I’m personally a fan of the Chargers approach last year (during the season, not their playoff games with the heavy secondary). Bears also had a unique approach. Most teams are hybrid in a way but clear scheme differences are all in gap assignments and the strong side. 

[davos]

32 minutes ago, Bj-Monster23 said:

Absolutely. A lot people say or think we don’t have the pieces to make the transition which right now is true. The biggest question is does this team really want to make that transition. I don’t see us becoming completely a 34 team but definitely more looks of it to throw teams off more. The players they look at in the draft and free agency will determine that.

 

We will know for sure if the Panthers are going to make that subtle transition by looking at or pursuing guys like Zach Allen, LJ Collier, Ben Banogu, Jachai Polite, and Brain Burns are those we could look at. 

I personally think Ben Banogu could be a great pickup for what we may be looking for.

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, davos said:

That’s what I’m alluding to in a way. The player types aren’t going to be changing significantly other than maybe having one guy more in a EDGE mold that we use in our 4-3 OVER looks in that Leo spot as someone screencapped.

I’m personally a fan of the Chargers approach last year (during the season, not their playoff games with the heavy secondary). Bears also had a unique approach. Most teams are hybrid in a way but clear scheme differences are all in gap assignments and the strong side. 

I will be interested in seeing what types of coverages we use and how we utilize our linebackers. The biggest concerns with a 3-4 is how they hold up against the rush as you have fewer guys on the line filling run gap assignments. Supposedly the SS and the interior linebackers have to be able to shed blockers and make tackles as there are more offensive linemen reaching the second level. I suspect we will use a base 4-3 still on running downs and use the 3 linemen with an extra OLB who can cover or blitz. I suspect they must think guys like Poe would be better in a 2 gap system holding the line than rushing the passer. Don't know though. Poe looked at times as if he was blown out when teams doubled him and ran him over 

[Black&BlueBubba]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

The notion that a switch from a 4-3 to a hybrid 3-4 is that large is really overblown. It won't take 2 or 3 years to develop because it isn't a 3-4 totally but 3-4 looks particularly on passing downs using DT tackles to use a one gap or 2 gap system with linebackers to pressure or cover in space. The change is predicated on having difficulty finding enough 4-3 DE types who can rush the passer and still play a zone blitz scheme which requires some coverage skills. If I remember correctly we used more 3 rusher sets against Brees both times and shut down the short passing game. So it won't look that differently than what we used last year at times but takes advantage of the folks we have.

So the critics who say we aren't going to change much are partially right for the wrong reason. It won't be because Rivera won't change, it is because we are already changing and will continue to do so as offenses become more diverse and it becomes more difficult to find hand in the dirt DEs that do nothing but rush the passer.

Yes.  This is what I was talking about in other threads.  Rams run a 3-4 hybrid but with one gap responsibilities.  I will be utilizing these looks on passing downs to give more pass rushing options.  

 

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

Yes.  This is what I was talking about in other threads.  Rams run a 3-4 hybrid but with one gap responsibilities.  I will be utilizing these looks on passing downs to give more pass rushing options.  

 

Depends on whether we think guys like Poe can play one gap or two gap. He didn't get much if any pressure last year. Star was much better at holding the line against the run and still being able to generate a pass rush against the pass. Poe is built to do just that athletically but his production was poor last year 

[Sub Zero]

I've said this months ago..  There might be some plays added with that in mind.. But I don't think it will be enough to be noticeable..

[carpanfan96]

11 hours ago, CaliPanthers said:

Maybe something like the Seahawks. Chris Clemons is acting as the Leo a DE/OLB hybrid.

Could we use Shaq as a Will in a 4-3 scheme and move him to the Sam in the 3-4 where we could use his speed off the edge or in coverage.

 

This could be very close to what you see with the Panthers. Shift the front 7 gap responsibilities and it's a 4-3. lots of moving parts that could create confusion for offenses especially with Luke making the adjustments.

[Bj-Monster23]

30 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

I will be interested in seeing what types of coverages we use and how we utilize our linebackers. The biggest concerns with a 3-4 is how they hold up against the rush as you have fewer guys on the line filling run gap assignments. Supposedly the SS and the interior linebackers have to be able to shed blockers and make tackles as there are more offensive linemen reaching the second level. I suspect we will use a base 4-3 still on running downs and use the 3 linemen with an extra OLB who can cover or blitz. I suspect they must think guys like Poe would be better in a 2 gap system holding the line than rushing the passer. Don't know though. Poe looked at times as if he was blown out when teams doubled him and ran him over 

This is so true. But Poe played well when he was able to play over the center. He just doesn’t offer much anymore at least last season rushing the passer. He rushed the passer playing NT at KC and mainly had about 6 to 4 sacks on the season.  KK will transition to 5 tech which he will play that spot well with his gap penetration and ability to stop the run. The biggest question mark is does Vernon Butler steps up and can play left DE. If not they need to look at LJ Collier and Zach Allen for sure in this draft. They both can play 5 tech in a 34 but also move to the 3 tech in a 43. Thats the versatility that we need and are looking for.

[mc52beast]

I’m thinking that Tepper wants a 3-4 and that he is giving Ron time to assemble a 3-4 defense. I think we will see Ron’s “hybrid” this year and that the following season we will see more of a traditional 3-4