Panthers pick up option on Torrey Smith

[heel31ok]

On 3/8/2019 at 2:49 AM, Eazy-E said:

So we have Cotch as a coach which is like a vet receiver mentor for the young guys. Why are we pretty much paying Torrey 5 mill for the same thing?

We could have let Torrey walk, cut Shaq, given TD 1 year 5 million to be the team leader we apparently lacked, all while saving around 10 million.

We are going to suck this year boys.

Maybe we will suck but it won't be because if this...Cam's health and OL will tell the tale...

[heel31ok]

On 3/8/2019 at 7:55 AM, Mr. Scot said:

He was ineffective long before Newton was injured.

Lol...his job was to come in and stretch the field...the ineffectiveness fell on inability to throw the long ball... 

[Toomers]

4 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

A whole lot of ifs.

Keeping Smith is NOT a bad move IMO. Before injury, he was developing a rapport with Cam and numbers were trending up. THen he and Cam got bit by the injury bug and we know how the story played out.

Costed out? Because we didn't want to pay a 34 yr old safety above market rates? There are other options available. I'll wait.

It's more amazing how some people create reasons to post hate for all team actions, some which are not bad, just to add negatives to Hurney or Rivera. 

See this post. The last paragraph. That’s not referring to ONE thing. That’s you complaining about complaining and when asked you couldn’t/refused to put anything at all behind your statements. Then acted like it was beneath you. So don’t just deflect away now. Deal with it or leave like you said you would. 

[Sasquatch]

18 minutes ago, Toomers said:

See this post. The last paragraph. That’s not referring to ONE thing. That’s you complaining about complaining and when asked you couldn’t/refused to put anything at all behind your statements. Then acted like it was beneath you. So don’t just deflect away now. Deal with it or leave like you said you would. 

Good grief. If you're going to cherry pick. That was intended to point out that some people, such as yourself consider everything Hurney does to be negative despite the fact that some moves,  such as this one, clearly has no current negative. It was not intended to start a discussion in this thread on whether Hurney is a good GM. If you want that discussion, start another thread. This one is about picking up the option on Smith.

[Sasquatch]

35 minutes ago, stbugs said:

It’s not a zero risk deal. We were supposedly interested in Weddle but bowed out due to the price. So for $5.5m we didn’t want a starting safety over a bench WR on a running and heavy TE/RB reception team making $5m. I’m not saying it’s an either or, but that we are making FA decisions with $15m of cap dedicated to 3 guys we might keep that won’t have a positive impact.

Isn't it possible that the price for Weddle was too high for a 34 year old safety who isn't even in the top of those currently available?  We had the available cap room to sign him IF we wanted. Absolutely nothing prevented it IF we felt he was worth that price. 

[heel31ok]

3 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Isn't it possible that the price for Weddle was too high for a 34 year old safety who isn't even in the top of those currently available?  We had the available cap room to sign him IF we wanted. Absolutely nothing prevented it IF we felt he was worth that price. 

If there was serious mutual interest then talks would have continued...you price yourself out of places that aren't your top picks...we would have had overpay  for him.This had nothing to do with Smith...

[Toomers]

11 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Good grief. If you're going to cherry pick. That was intended to point out that some people, such as yourself consider everything Hurney does to be negative despite the fact that some moves,  such as this one, clearly has no current negative. It was not intended to start a discussion in this thread on whether Hurney is a good GM. If you want that discussion, start another thread. This one is about picking up the option on Smith.

So bitching with no basis. Got it. You want to complain about us complaint but aren’t capable of defending you’re position. Dont challenge what is posted if you don’t intend on backing it up. 

You came in here and made the statement. Go ahead. Start a thread of good moves we’ve made recently in FA, or cap wise. Here I’ll help. Jarius Wright

[heel31ok]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

This is where you are missing my point. Considering that we MAY keep Smith, Kalil and Searcy, we may not have had enough cap for Weddle. If we said Mose Frazier is WR4, then we may have had enough cap.

You are assuming that we have no other plans. Assuming $7m for rookie cap, we’ve got $8m free. If we planned to spend $5m on a C or G then no we didn’t have $5.5m for Weddle. It becomes a different conversation if we have $23m free.

Was 5.5 his asking price for us?

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

And you're basing yours on speculation of what you believe he's going to do now. Last season, the new owner steered clear of football decisions focusing on the business side. Moving on from the aging vets doesn't seem to follow the Hurney/Rivera MO. I'll base my grades on what gets done , not what I think they'll do. I'll ;eave that to those who claim some sort of precognitive ability <and yet weren't able to win the 1.6 Billion dollar lottery a few months ago>.

So you put your faith and trust in the two guys who together have yet to amass a 500 record...

Solid choice 

1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

Here's a better move than that.

I wouldn't say that I go for either of your anticipated responses.

First, signing at your "more reasonable price" would likely require some guaranteed money. We are at zero on that at the moment and I like that. It wouldn't bother me much if he left and I don't anticipate that he would get big money anywhere. But right now we have him locked up. He can't talk to anybody about playing elsewhere. IF we want 5 million in cap room, it's a matter of a few minutes to make the required notifications. Otherwise, we have that 8 years + 11 playoff games + 2 Superbowls experience to be shared in the WR room through camp at least at no cost.  Renegotiate, cut him and resign after week 1, who knows how it goes, BUT RIGHT NOW THIS IS A ZERO RISK DEAL. I don't see how so many can't see that. 

No, it wouldn't. He's got no leverage to ask for something like that.

Right now, we have a player who's taking up more cap room that he's worth. You're basing the argument that it's okay largely on the notion that he won't end up making that much. If he does, your whole argument pretty much falls apart.

[MasterAwesome]

On 3/9/2019 at 12:11 PM, thefuzz said:

Causing me distress?  Nah.  I have a pretty good life to be honest.

I have supported the Panthers since day 1, however with that support comes my ability to criticize them...which I do often.

Here's a fun little quest that I have mentioned a few times already with little to no response.  Why don't you lay out exactly what good things this teams management has done since Hurney took over again?  Should be a lengthy list right?

I didn’t ask about the quality of your life lol, but thanks for sharing. Not sure how you can argue that the Panthers aren’t causing you distress when 95% of your posts about the team are extremely sour. Either you’re truly upset by the moves they’re making or you’re trolling..and I’m pretty sure you’re not a troll. I’m not saying you’re not allowed to criticize them, I’m saying they don’t owe you anything so I disagree with this entitled mentality of “what are they doing to earn my support” when the reality of the situation is that you can choose to root for any other team at any time, or just quit watching the NFL altogether. If you’re looking for a team to earn your support, then why not simply jump ship and bandwagon a perennial winning franchise like the Patriots? Sounds pretty simple to me. Meanwhile, many of us have emotional attachments to this team and are able to accept the good with the bad.

Obviously everyone has criticisms of their favorite teams, but when you get to the point where you harbor more negativity towards your team than you do positivity, then that’s just a damn toxic relationship for both parties. These kinds of fans getting constantly stressed out and harboring unhealthy feelings of anger and frustration, and the teams who have to deal with these fans spouting vitriol all over the internet and attacking key members of the organization. Like these boards have me wondering who hates us more: Saints fans or our own fans. At some point, you just gotta consider it a win/win for both parties if you just walk away from the team.

Not sure why you’re assigning me homework to list out Hurney’s achievements when I explicitly stated in literally my most recent post that I’m not a fan of his. But yes I believe he has done a decent amount of good since taking over again...but obviously much of this is subjective and if you’re strongly anti-Hurney then you’ll probably perceive these very differently. Nevertheless, my opinions:

1) The KB trade was darn genius, considering we got a 3rd round pick for a player on the verge of washing out of the league a season and a half later. This is one of the less subjective points as I’m not sure how you could rationalize this as anything less than a huge win, but I’d like to hear you state your case if that’s how you see it.

2) He seems to have had a pretty solid draft. Moore, Jackson, and Thomas look like they’ll be solid starters for years to come. He certainly had some head scratchers like Gaulden and Haynes in the mid rounds, but if you can walk away with 3 solid starters from a draft then that’s pretty good. 

3) He was literally the only GM in the league with the balls to sign Eric Reid this past season. If you think Eric Reid wouldn’t have improved the rosters of at least 20 teams in the league for what was virtually vet minimum, then you’re fooling yourself. Him being unsigned for that long was purely political. It’s TBD if we overpaid him with the extension, but I give Hurney credit for at least locking up a young talented FA for once, instead of continuing to sign one-year veteran stopgap bandaids. Seriously, how many veteran safeties have we shuffled through for the past 5-6 years? We finally secure a good, young one for 3 years and people are complaining over whether we may have overpaid him by maybe a million a year (like I said, TBD).

4) He appears to be more disciplined in knowing when to let players go. Letting players like TD, Munnerlyn, Kalil, and Adams go, shows he has matured and he’s not as sentimental. Also not overpaying Norwell and seemingly not wanting to overpay Williams shows he’s being a bit more frugal with his spending. I’m withholding judgment on Torrey Smith until I see if he’s still on the roster by Week 1.

Thats all I got for now off the top of my head without looking back at some of the subtleties. Again, this is coming from someone who is not a fan of Hurney.

[Cpt slay a ho]

Some of you need to go root for the giants and quit ruining every other thread with hurney hate 

[MasterAwesome]

On 3/9/2019 at 12:18 PM, Mr. Scot said:

Wrong again, but no shock there.

I judge by results, and the results under Gettleman were the best stretch of winning this team has ever had. the suggestion that he "hampered us in the long term" is pretty stupid, given that he didn't actually have a "long term", and that we were still winning after the last offseason he controlled.

You're really bad at this.

Yeah...who needs those draft picks to pan out, right? Pshhhh...so what if Gettleman’s drafting sucked and we have one of the oldest rosters as a result! At least we lost a Super Bowl under his management.

Right...4-5 years as GM isn’t long enough to hamper a franchise long-term lol. You can potentially do that with literally one SIGNING...let alone 5 years of control over personnel decisions. Some would argue that Gettleman did just that with the Kalil signing, although that’s a bit dramatic in my eyes.

I’m gonna use your own wording here: you can argue til your last breath that you’re making intelligent points and are winning this discussion, but that doesn’t make it true. I’m sure these delusions of grandeur come from years of your mom telling you what a smart little handsome boy you were growing up, while you were sitting at the table eating your crayons.

[top dawg]

13 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I didn’t ask about the quality of your life lol, but thanks for sharing. Not sure how you can argue that the Panthers aren’t causing you distress when 95% of your posts about the team are extremely sour. Either you’re truly upset by the moves they’re making or you’re trolling..and I’m pretty sure you’re not a troll. I’m not saying you’re not allowed to criticize them, I’m saying they don’t owe you anything so I disagree with this entitled mentality of “what are they doing to earn my support” when the reality of the situation is that you can choose to root for any other team at any time, or just quit watching the NFL altogether. If you’re looking for a team to earn your support, then why not simply jump ship and bandwagon a perennial winning franchise like the Patriots? Sounds pretty simple to me. Meanwhile, many of us have emotional attachments to this team and are able to accept the good with the bad.

Obviously everyone has criticisms of their favorite teams, but when you get to the point where you harbor more negativity towards your team than you do positivity, then that’s just a damn toxic relationship for both parties. These kinds of fans getting constantly stressed out and harboring unhealthy feelings of anger and frustration, and the teams who have to deal with these fans spouting vitriol all over the internet and attacking key members of the organization. Like these boards have me wondering who hates us more: Saints fans or our own fans. At some point, you just gotta consider it a win/win for both parties if you just walk away from the team.

Not sure why you’re assigning me homework to list out Hurney’s achievements when I explicitly stated in literally my most recent post that I’m not a fan of his. But yes I believe he has done a decent amount of good since taking over again...but obviously much of this is subjective and if you’re strongly anti-Hurney then you’ll probably perceive these very differently. Nevertheless, my opinions:

1) The KB trade was darn genius, considering we got a 3rd round pick for a player on the verge of washing out of the league a season and a half later. This is one of the less subjective points as I’m not sure how you could rationalize this as anything less than a huge win, but I’d like to hear you state your case if that’s how you see it.

2) He seems to have had a pretty solid draft. Moore, Jackson, and Thomas look like they’ll be solid starters for years to come. He certainly had some head scratchers like Gaulden and Haynes in the mid rounds, but if you can walk away with 3 solid starters from a draft then that’s pretty good. 

3) He was literally the only GM in the league with the balls to sign Eric Reid this past season. If you think Eric Reid wouldn’t have improved the rosters of at least 20 teams in the league for what was virtually vet minimum, then you’re fooling yourself. Him being unsigned for that long was purely political. It’s TBD if we overpaid him with the extension, but I give Hurney credit for at least locking up a young talented FA for once, instead of continuing to sign one-year veteran stopgap bandaids. Seriously, how many veteran safeties have we shuffled through for the past 5-6 years? We finally secure a good, young one for 3 years and people are complaining over whether we may have overpaid him by maybe a million a year (like I said, TBD).

4) He appears to be more disciplined in knowing when to let players go. Letting players like TD, Munnerlyn, Kalil, and Adams go, shows he has matured and he’s not as sentimental. Also not overpaying Norwell and seemingly not wanting to overpay Williams shows he’s being a bit more frugal with his spending. I’m withholding judgment on Torrey Smith until I see if he’s still on the roster by Week 1.

Thats all I got for now off the top of my head without looking back at some of the subtleties. Again, this is coming from someone who is not a fan of Hurney.

That was a pretty awesome response. Bravo!

[MasterAwesome]

On 3/9/2019 at 1:54 PM, Lumps said:

Yea Cam going down had nothing to do with the last half of the season, especially considering the defense got astronomically better.

Imagine before Cam got worse if he had Moore and Samuel to throw to.

But according to Ron, Funchess and Smith were the better options. According to Ron Moore and Samuel were not starting due to two players who were god awful.

Ron has a history, I’m not going to spell out for you, of playing vets until his hand is forced with injury. Even god awful play won’t force it.

9 year sample size, plenty of examples. In the end starting Smith and Funchess over Moore and Samuel is something 99% of this board we’re critical about due to Ron’s history. You’re that 1%, I get it, just won’t make logical sense to anyone.

Samuel wasn’t starting early in the season cause he had issues with his heart lol. Then he got eased into the lineup because of conditioning...he even said so himself.

 

Where is this utopia you speak of where rookies are always ready to jump into the starting lineup from day 1 and there’s no need to learn playbooks or anything? Why does your mind jump to the conclusion of “Ron played Funchess and Smith cause he thought they were better”? They were teaching Moore all three positions (X, Y, and Z)...obviously he’s gonna need some time before he’s ready to take the bulk of the snaps. You really wanna throw a rookie in the starting lineup on Day 1 when he potentially doesn’t know what route he’s running...because he’s ..talented? Maybe if they were playing backyard football. Either the Panthers could’ve simplified his playbook and gave him a handful of plays to learn and run and let him loose on Day 1, or they could’ve eased him into the lineup and put more and more on his plate until he’s ready to take over. I’ll give you a hint: one of those two options would’ve hindered not only Moore’s individual development, but the potential of the offense as a whole.