Panthers pick up option on Torrey Smith

[Mr. Scot]

19 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

Which is what counts until week 1. OTC reports 17 millionish without the rookie pool. Spotrac says just under 15 million with roughly 3.5 million rookie cap included.

There's obviously going to be adjustments for all teams when all money counts at the start  of week 1. Torrey's deal will obviously be revisited then.

The rookie cap isn't on top of those figures. It's taken from within those numbers.

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fair assessment.

It's kind of like sticking with the girlfriend who treats you badly and constantly cheats on you because "you just really love her" and "in your eyes, she's perfect".

There's a point where being a fan becomes being an enabler.

I literally thought along those lines too. LOL. I can’t believe you two nailed both like that. 

[MasterAwesome]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't know if I'd call it Stockholm Syndrome, maybe a version of it.

I think there are some folks who so badly want this team to be good that they'll respond to any suggestion they might not be with "la la la la I can't hear you".

For these people, it doesn't matter whether Hurney was bad in the past or shows sign of making the same mistakes now. They just refuse to hear it. And they're going to keep on acting like everything is great and every move the team makes is brilliant, even if we crash and burn.

Granted, you've also got those folks who will defend Hurney to the death just because Dave Gettleman cut their favorite player, but that's different. Those guys are just stupid.

So for me, "Stockholm Syndrome" might not be exactly the right term. Maybe a mix of it with a Pollyanna type optimism / denial thrown in. But being there's not exactly one word to describe that kind of behavior, I guess "Stockholm Syndrome" is as good as anything.

Given the history of this team, I can understand being weary with inconsistency and losing, and as a result not wanting to accept that there might be more of it. But the reality is that denying the existence of flaws and problems doesn't make them go away.

To put it another way, you can argue till your last breath that Marty Hurney is a good GM and Ron Rivera is a fantastic head coach, but that's not going to make those things true.

So Mr. Scot (or are you Dr. Scot now), what’s your medical diagnosis for someone who believes Gettleman to have been infallible and never acknowledges his three consecutive first round busts in KB, Shaq, and Butler, that have continued to hinder us to this day? How do you take someone seriously like that? You’re literally the same person you’re so vehemently criticizing, you’ve just latched onto a different infallible deity.

-I’ve stated on record that I don’t like Hurney and I’m indifferent to Ron. So if anyone wants to brand me a “nuthugger” or whatever words get tossed around these days, then you’ll need something else.

[Sasquatch]

I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining. That's closer to what you're doing. I'm disagreeing with you because I do. There is nothing negative about keeping Smith at this time. If we need that cap space, we can get it. The salary does not become guaranteed unless a vested veteran is on the roster on week 1. Until then IF we were to need that cap space for another player, CHOP CHOP DONE. So many whining about this when it is truly meaningless.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

So Mr. Scot (or are you Dr. Scot now), what’s your medical diagnosis for someone who believes Gettleman to have been infallible and never acknowledges his three consecutive first round busts in KB, Shaq, and Butler, that have continued to hinder us to this day? How do you take someone seriously like that? You’re literally the same person you’re so vehemently criticizing, you’ve just latched onto a different infallible deity.

My response would be that person only exists in your head.

Gettleman wasn't perfect, and I've never said he was. I would say he was a hell of a lot better than the garbage GM we have running the team now, and a look at their respective records backs that up.

I suppose trying to mischaracterize me as being that way makes it easier to try and distract from your lousy arguments, but it doesn't make them any less lousy.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Sasquatch said:

I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining. That's closer to what you're doing. I'm disagreeing with you because I do. There is nothing negative about keeping Smith at this time. If we need that cap space, we can get it. The salary does not become guaranteed unless a vested veteran is on the roster on week 1. Until then IF we were to need that cap space for another player, CHOP CHOP DONE. So many whining about this when it is truly meaningless.

And if he is still on the roster Week 1 at 5 million, will you still defend it?

[MasterAwesome]

24 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

I think that some folks think that being a "fan", makes you have to like or love whomever or whatever you are a fan of no matter what.  I just don't see it that way.  I said this on twitter yesterday, but "fans" who are like that make owning an NFL team a no lose situation.

Browns "fans" show up to every game.  Buy tons of gear.  Watch every away game on TV.  And are known as some of the best fans in the NFL.  Why?  What has that team (until recently) done to earn that non wavering support?

What has this team done lately to earn that support?

That's why I used the term Stockholm Syndrome.  We are so captivated by football and the NFL that many will swear their allegiance to said team no matter what they do to them.  It's wild.

Why are you so entitled to think that the team has to earn your individual support? How about you just walk away and cut ties with the team if you’re so opposed to everything they do? You’re on the opposite end of the spectrum from these people with “Stockholm Syndrome” that you are criticizing...you are so strongly against so much of the management moves for this team that it is clearly causing you a lot of distress, and yet you come back and support this team every year.

While we’re throwing out all these amateurish psychological diagnoses, here’s another one: Battered Woman Syndrome.

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining. That's closer to what you're doing. I'm disagreeing with you because I do. There is nothing negative about keeping Smith at this time. If we need that cap space, we can get it. The salary does not become guaranteed unless a vested veteran is on the roster on week 1. Until then IF we were to need that cap space for another player, CHOP CHOP DONE. So many whining about this when it is truly meaningless.

  It’s not meaningless when he wasn’t even under contract. Why even pick up the option? Is he worth 5M in any scenario? No. 

  If we are complaining just to complain, it should’ve easy to list all the good Hurney has done. Why are you avoiding that. If the complaints aren’t legit, it should be easy. This is exactly what the Stockholm post is saying.  My team does no wrong. 

  What you say is true, and has been posted so many times by myself and others. We are well aware of the terms. What is a worry is the history of our current HC/GM and the fact that they over-value declining vets. 

[MasterAwesome]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

My response would be that person only exists in your head.

Gettleman wasn't perfect, and I've never said he was. I would say he was a hell of a lot better than the garbage GM we have running the team now, and a look at their respective records backs that up.

I suppose trying to mischaracterize me as being that way makes it easier to try and distract from your lousy arguments, but it doesn't make them any less lousy.

If “Gettleman wasn’t perfect” is the worst thing you can muster up about him, then you didn’t exactly disprove my point.

You judge who you deem to be a “good asset” by all his pros (E.g. Gettleman’s record), and you judge who you deem to be a “bad asset” by all his cons (E.g. Ron and Hurney’s roster/personnel decisions). You constantly cherry-pick and compare apples to oranges. Gettleman’s ability to find overachieving, cheap FA pickups allowed us short-term success, but his terrible drafting in the first few rounds have really hampered us in the long-term.

I was gonna write more stuff but I remembered your attention span only allows for one paragraph or less.

[Sasquatch]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

And if he is still on the roster Week 1 at 5 million, will you still defend it?

That would depend on what occurs between now and then. I may look back and think we should have released him and signed player xxxx, but I don't think you toss an 8 year vet with 11 playoff games and 2 Superbowls  with the belief that a 7 yr vet with 4 total playoff games is going to provide all the leadership needed in the WR room. 

[thefuzz]

13 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Why are you so entitled to think that the team has to earn your individual support? How about you just walk away and cut ties with the team if you’re so opposed to everything they do? You’re on the opposite end of the spectrum from these people with “Stockholm Syndrome” that you are criticizing...you are so strongly against so much of the management moves for this team that it is clearly causing you a lot of distress, and yet you come back and support this team every year.

While we’re throwing out all these amateurish psychological diagnoses, here’s another one: Battered Woman Syndrome.

Causing me distress?  Nah.  I have a pretty good life to be honest.

I have supported the Panthers since day 1, however with that support comes my ability to criticize them...which I do often.

Here's a fun little quest that I have mentioned a few times already with little to no response.  Why don't you lay out exactly what good things this teams management has done since Hurney took over again?  Should be a lengthy list right?

[Sasquatch]

8 minutes ago, Toomers said:

  If we are complaining just to complain, it should’ve easy to list all the good Hurney has done. W

Mainly, I'm trying to stay close to the topic of the thread. Hurney discussions can go in another thread that I'm likely to avoid just as I avoid political discussions (all hail Ben Shapiro).

All I'm trying to point out is that this is not a bad move. Nothing about it locks the team into anything at this time. People are whining and complaining about nothing. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. And manufacturing justifications for their outrage such as stating how this hampers our negotiations with other players. It doesn't.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

If “Gettleman wasn’t perfect” is the worst thing you can muster up about him, then you didn’t exactly disprove my point.

You judge who you deem to be a “good asset” by all his pros (E.g. Gettleman’s record), and you judge who you deem to be a “bad asset” by all his cons (E.g. Ron and Hurney’s roster/personnel decisions). You constantly cherry-pick and compare apples to oranges. Gettleman’s ability to find overachieving, cheap FA pickups allowed us short-term success, but his terrible drafting in the first few rounds have really hampered us in the long-term.

I was gonna write more stuff but I remembered your attention span only allows for one paragraph or less.

Wrong again, but no shock there.

I judge by results, and the results under Gettleman were the best stretch of winning this team has ever had. the suggestion that he "hampered us in the long term" is pretty stupid, given that he didn't actually have a "long term", and that we were still winning after the last offseason he controlled.

You're really bad at this.

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

That would depend on what occurs between now and then. I may look back and think we should have released him and signed player xxxx, but I don't think you toss an 8 year vet with 11 playoff games and 2 Superbowls  with the belief that a 7 yr vet with 4 total playoff games is going to provide all the leadership needed in the WR room. 

And this is part of the problem.

You're basing the decision on what he's done in the past. These decisions are more properly based on what he's going to do now. and on that front, last season is a lot better indication than 7 years ago.