Ron ranked in top 10 of NFL head coaches

[thefuzz]

Defense 13.5.

Offense 12.75.

Special Teams 22.

.559 winning % with a top 10 QB at the helm his entire career.

3/4 in the playoffs.

3 winning seasons out of 8.

6/12 against the division over the past 3 seasons.

Zero playoff wins in the last 3 seasons.

 

Man....something is starting to smell in here.

 

[Actionman0z]

I don't think people on this forum actually understand football. Each play is designed to score a TD, and each Defensive play is designed to stop it. We blame the coaching staff for all of these issues, when its just a matter of player execution, or lack there of. The margin for error is so small in the NFL. We lost 7 games with a one armed QB by a total of 20 points... all games we should have won, even with how pathetic we played. We crushed the saints during the last week of the season, and did something to them that nobody has ever done shut them out in a half, and had a lead margin of 23 points with an undrafted rookie free agent, while they only sat 2 offensive starters and no defensive starters. As much as we THINK we are so many players away, we went 15-1 with a similar roster, and one LESS talented on offense than we were last year. 

[Greatman77]

On 3/5/2019 at 11:59 AM, t96 said:

I don’t think people here realize how bad most of the other coaches are as well... Top 10 is probably about right. 

Yep. If you disagree, name 10 better current NFL head coaches.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Actionman0z said:

I don't think people on this forum actually understand football. Each play is designed to score a TD, and each Defensive play is designed to stop it. We blame the coaching staff for all of these issues, when its just a matter of player execution, or lack there of. The margin for error is so small in the NFL. We lost 7 games with a one armed QB by a total of 20 points... all games we should have won, even with how pathetic we played. We crushed the saints during the last week of the season, and did something to them that nobody has ever done shut them out in a half, and had a lead margin of 23 points with an undrafted rookie free agent, while they only sat 2 offensive starters and no defensive starters. As much as we THINK we are so many players away, we went 15-1 with a similar roster, and one LESS talented on offense than we were last year. 

if you think every win and loss is based solely on execution and there are no such things as coaching issues, I'd say you're the one who doesn't understand football.

[tiger7_88]

5 hours ago, PanthersFanNY said:

His defense average rank for points allowed over 8 years is 13.5.

According to the Team Defense statistics at pro-football-reference.com, Rivera's defenses have been ranked as follows in the league in points allowed since 2011: 27th, 18th, 2nd, 21st, 6th, 26th, 11th, 19th.

That's 27+18+2+21+6+26+11+19 = 130, then divided by 8 = 16.25.

[tiger7_88]

2 hours ago, Actionman0z said:

I don't think people on this forum actually understand football. Each play is designed to score a TD, and each Defensive play is designed to stop it. We blame the coaching staff for all of these issues, when its just a matter of player execution, or lack there of. The margin for error is so small in the NFL. We lost 7 games with a one armed QB by a total of 20 points... all games we should have won, even with how pathetic we played. We crushed the saints during the last week of the season, and did something to them that nobody has ever done shut them out in a half, and had a lead margin of 23 points with an undrafted rookie free agent, while they only sat 2 offensive starters and no defensive starters. As much as we THINK we are so many players away, we went 15-1 with a similar roster, and one LESS talented on offense than we were last year. 

Holy crap, you just took around 200 words to say "coaches/coaching don't matter".

Which is absolute insanity.

[Navy_football]

3 hours ago, Actionman0z said:

I don't think people on this forum actually understand football. Each play is designed to score a TD, and each Defensive play is designed to stop it. We blame the coaching staff for all of these issues, when its just a matter of player execution, or lack there of. The margin for error is so small in the NFL. We lost 7 games with a one armed QB by a total of 20 points... all games we should have won, even with how pathetic we played. We crushed the saints during the last week of the season, and did something to them that nobody has ever done shut them out in a half, and had a lead margin of 23 points with an undrafted rookie free agent, while they only sat 2 offensive starters and no defensive starters. As much as we THINK we are so many players away, we went 15-1 with a similar roster, and one LESS talented on offense than we were last year. 

I agree this team isn't that far off personnel wise.

A pass rush specialist and a serviceable Nickelback OR a ball hawking free safety on defense. 

A serviceable OT for depth or to start (could just mean the return of a healthy Williams), and a healthy Cam on offense. 

Gotta remember this team had new starters at LG, LT, RT, TE1, FB, WR1, WR2 and WR3 for most of the season. Couple that with a new OC and what could you really expect? Even with the same players, I'm confident that unit will take a huge step forward next season - if Cam is healthy. 

Replacing Captain with a good NB alone would have won 3 more games last season. 

I don't agree completely with the coach vs execution statement though. A coach needs to put the right person on the field and then put them in the best position to make plays based on their skillsets AND what the opponent is doing. I don't think the Panthers have been consistently good at either. 

 

 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Rivera, Fox and Capers were all superstar DC's whose talents did not translate into great HC's.

Taking into consideration the players available to each of them, Rivera may be the most disappointing of the bunch.

 

[panthers55]

14 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

And I'll bet most people that frequent this site have seen significantly more Panthers football games coached by Ron Rivera than Patrick Daugherty.

Certainly possible. Still many folks here see and believe what they want to believe. Sometimes an outside source can be more objective given they don't have an agenda 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Rivera, Fox and Capers were all superstar DC's whose talents did not translate into great HC's.

Taking into consideration the players available to each of them, Rivera may be the most disappointing of the bunch.

 

The funny thing is for years people have said Cam didn't have the weapons he needed and remarked that last year we finally got some receivers and this year we need to shore up the offensive line especially if Williams walks. Those comments haven't just been here but everywhere. So the idea that Rivera who had the same talent to work with suddenly had a ton of talent is baffling. That is 180 opposite of the dialogue for years and a big reason he got 2 coaches of the year. Both years he and the team overachieved their expected performance based on available personnel.

[raz]

who do we blame that we can't field a good o'line in 8 yrs?   who do we blame that us 'tards knew the new dc sucked ass and it took coach 6 weeks to figure out?   i mean, i get it, not ron. but who?  oh yeah, players and gm.   not ron. honestly he has no responsibilities so how could he be to blame?

[panthers55]

 Using rankings rather than absolute numbers statistically is not useful for multi year comparisons and even less for cumulative averages.  If the top ranked team defensively gives up 3 points a game and the tenth ranked team gives up 5 points a game the difference between those ten spots is negligible.or .2 points.

If the difference between the 15th and 20th spot was 15 points, then each difference is significantly more. 5 points. Then when you compare year over year it gets more convoluted. For example we could be ranked 5th one year and give up 15 points a game and be ranked 15th the next and give up 20 points a game.

Context matters as well. In 2015 we went 15-1 with the number one scoring offense. Our defense gave up a lots of points late in the game which were often junk time points as the opponent was  way behind and we played prevent. If you just went by averages you would think that defense wasn't very good but you would be looking at simple numbers without context. Look at how many times we talk about talking heads just using line stats and highlights to form wrong opinions without watching for context. Many of these posts are doing the exact same thing.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

16 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Look at how many times we talk about talking heads just using line stats and highlights to form wrong opinions without watching for context. Many of these posts are doing the exact same thing.

I'd wager this ^^^ is as good an argument as any so far for dismissing the original post in this thread.

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

I'd wager this ^^^ is as good an argument as any so far for dismissing the original post in this thread.

Not really. The OP post is subjective at best but is based on context. The defensive rankings are based on relative rankings without context. So while both could be erroneous they are not based on similar concepts at all.  But it is true that neither of them could be right or irrefutable. Honestly I like the stat comparing points for versus points against differential which gives context in the one stat that matters.