Panthers moving on from Mike Adams

[panthers55]

46 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but some of them were a bit late. TD and Adams clearly were in decline this past season. Better planning for the future could have been done, although Gettleman and Hurney deserve mixed blame for the roster being as thin as it was/is. 

It is nice to see Hurney making the obvious moves. Now let's see how he does with the tougher moves, like what to do with Shaq, D. Williams, etc. 

TD still played at a high level and Adams was there as much to teach guys like Jackson as start. Love the fact you can't give any credit where it is due.

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, Lumps said:

Re signing cap, keeping Adams and extending TD were signs of being too loyal...

they cant play forever doesn’t mean now when they are finally released a staff of 9 years is learning anything

 it if they did I mean...9 years. 

LOL. Once a critic always a critic 

[trueblade]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Love how reality says the opposite. Did TD get the graceful exit? How about Munnerlyn.? Of course Marty isn't a jerk about it like Gettleman

Both of the moves you referenced were this off season. 

[kungfoodude]

27 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

TD still played at a high level and Adams was there as much to teach guys like Jackson as start. Love the fact you can't give any credit where it is due.

TD was no longer playing at a high level. Adams being there to "teach guys like Jackson" is a pretty poor excuse for not having a capable young safety to replace him. 

There is no reason to be as defensive as you are being. Gettleman left a pile of turds and Hurney is doing a mediocre job at polishing them. Rivera has been pretty notorious for bad roster decisions, even by his own admissions, so there is not much to defend there.

The offseason decisions thus far have been what most of us expected SHOULD happen, so I am not sure why Hurney and Rivera deserve a hearty back patting session for doing what most of the casual fans could see needed to happen.

As I said, the obvious moves don't deserve that much credit. The real test is going to be FA signings, contract extensions/negotiations and drafting. 

[Yaboychris28]

6 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's the right move. I just hope we aren't planning to put all of our FS eggs in the Gaulden basket. He did not look good as a rookie for a  3rd round pick and if he doesn't look a lot better very early on in camp I think we should consider giving him a look at nickel where he primarily played in college. That spot should be open too.

There’s no way we are, although RR loves to surprise me with his logic. 

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, trueblade said:

Both of the moves you referenced were this off season. 

And last off-season he dumped KB which also proved to be  the best move. This year TD and Munnerlyn. As for Shaq it depends on who we can pick up or draft that is better. That is why TD was a starter for so long. He was the best option not named Kuechly.

I just find it funny that when Hurney does well it is let's see how it plays out first before giving him credit  But the same folks don't wait to complain and give him the benefit of the doubt the other way. 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

TD was no longer playing at a high level. Adams being there to "teach guys like Jackson" is a pretty poor excuse for not having a capable young safety to replace him. 

There is no reason to be as defensive as you are being. Gettleman left a pile of turds and Hurney is doing a mediocre job at polishing them. Rivera has been pretty notorious for bad roster decisions, even by his own admissions, so there is not much to defend there.

The offseason decisions thus far have been what most of us expected SHOULD happen, so I am not sure why Hurney and Rivera deserve a hearty back patting session for doing what most of the casual fans could see needed to happen.

As I said, the obvious moves don't deserve that much credit. The real test is going to be FA signings, contract extensions/negotiations and drafting. 

When you are roster building you have to triage. You keep who you can for the best price and replace who you have to replace first and then replace who you want to upgrade after that. With Star, Norwell, and Worley leaving and all the upgrades you need to make, you kill chemistry trying to replace too many guys at once.  TD did play at a high level and Adams was keeping a secondary together with mostly new faces. Keeping a veteran who should be depth isn't bad unless you suffer numerous injuries and end up having to start him every week.

I am not defensive simply pointing the obvious bias that a half dozen posters by constant daily criticisms have painted an inaccurate picture of both Hurney and Rivera going back a decade to complain at every turn.

And Rivera admitting a mistake after the fact doesn't justify saying he is terrible at roster decisions. It is that constant extreme exaggerations that are the most annoying.  He surely could be better at a lot of things but he is not terrible or he would be gone a long time ago.

And why should they get acknowledgement for choosing athleticism over loyalty? Because you among others accuse them of picking loyalty over ability and have bitched about it for  years. Here are recent examples where that isn't true.  So just acknowledge the positive as much as you complain about the negative. It is called balance. 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You keep who you can for the best price and replace who you have to first. With Star, Norwell, and Worley leaving and all the upgrades you need to make, you kill chemistry trying to replace too many guys are once.  TD did play at a high level and Adams was keeping a secondary together with mostly new faces. Keeping a veteran who should be depth isn't bad unless you suffer numerous injuries and end up having to start him every week.

I am not defensive simply pointing the obvious bias that a half dozen posters by constant daily criticisms have painted an in accurate picture of both Hurney and Rivera going back a decade to complain at every turn.

And Rivera admitting a mistake after the fact doesn't justify saying he is terrible at roster decisions. It is that constant extreme exaggerations that are the most annoying.  He surely could be better at a lot of things but he is not terrible or he would be gone a long time ago.

And why should they get acknowledgement for choosing athleticism over loyalty? Because you among others accuse them of picking loyalty over ability and have bitched about it for  years. Here are recent examples where that isn't true.  

That's fine to say but in the end those roster decisions netted us 7 wins, so obviously they did not work out in the end. We will have to agree to disagree on TD. I love the guy to death but he was definitely starting to show his age. Adams has been great for us but he was not good last year. Nor was our secondary good overall, more like average to below average. And we didn't keep him as depth, we kept him as a starter. He had largely evaded Father Time up to last season but he was also 37 years old. 

I don't accuse them of picking loyalty, so I don't know where that comes from. I do maintain that Rivera has a very outdated habit of seeming to prefer veterans he knows versus younger players, regardless of actual abilities. That story has been played out time and time again. That has been an issue under two owners and two GM's, so I think he bears the brunt of the responsibility for that bad habit at this point. He did seem to favor playing more of the young core this season but that was also largely due to injuries and the season being lost, not because they were just simply better players. Again, another bad habit that Rivera has. I have no idea if it is loyalty, the "devil you know, versus the devil you don't" mentality, team politics, etc. I really could not care less. If you want to win the game, you need to play the players that give you the best chance to win. Period.

And wouldn't lionizing Hurney and Rivera for letting Adams walk, TD walk and cutting Munnerlyn be a pretty classic example of "extreme exaggeration?" Those are just simply logical moves. The only one that was even remotely "tough" might be TD but even that is a stretch at his age, especially now that he is showing it.

 

[Waldo]

This move would look a lot better if we jettison Searcy too before the guy has a final concussion or worse. Reid was the only playable safety on the roster all year last year. Adams was a hell of a player but we signed him after he was no more than a coach taking up a roster spot. We have one real safety and the rest is still a trainwreck. I need to see a lot more before I obtain optimism about our safety position next year and in the future. 

[panthers55]

38 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That's fine to say but in the end those roster decisions netted us 7 wins, so obviously they did not work out in the end. We will have to agree to disagree on TD. I love the guy to death but he was definitely starting to show his age. Adams has been great for us but he was not good last year. Nor was our secondary good overall, more like average to below average. And we didn't keep him as depth, we kept him as a starter. He had largely evaded Father Time up to last season but he was also 37 years old. 

I don't accuse them of picking loyalty, so I don't know where that comes from. I do maintain that Rivera has a very outdated habit of seeming to prefer veterans he knows versus younger players, regardless of actual abilities. That story has been played out time and time again. That has been an issue under two owners and two GM's, so I think he bears the brunt of the responsibility for that bad habit at this point. He did seem to favor playing more of the young core this season but that was also largely due to injuries and the season being lost, not because they were just simply better players. Again, another bad habit that Rivera has. I have no idea if it is loyalty, the "devil you know, versus the devil you don't" mentality, team politics, etc. I really could not care less. If you want to win the game, you need to play the players that give you the best chance to win. Period.

And wouldn't lionizing Hurney and Rivera for letting Adams walk, TD walk and cutting Munnerlyn be a pretty classic example of "extreme exaggeration?" Those are just simply logical moves. The only one that was even remotely "tough" might be TD but even that is a stretch at his age, especially now that he is showing it.

 

I don't find fault with coaches playing vets over younger guys until they learn the scheme or have to be fast tracked in the event of injury. The truth is when you see a young guy come in and play well either as a starter or when someone gets injured, you should be congratulating the coaches for successfully cramming in a bunch of information into a short period of time getting them ready to play at a high level. The idea that Rivera ignores or doesn't see ability is ludicrous. But he is conservative by nature and that makes him prefer experience which usually translates to fewer mistakes. And that almost always gives you the best chance to win.

If the argument doesn't apply regarding Marty and Ron choosing loyalty over ability then that isn't an issue so no need to reply.  Hurney had a great draft last year and there is every reason for optimism. 

[LordOfDaWingz]

Great, when are we moving on from Matt?

[davos]

So who will be the next twilight of their career safety we sign?  We're getting really good at these rentals that are nothing special.

Coleman, Adams, Searcy, Tillman, Harper, Mikell, DeCoud.  Yuck

 

[trueblade]

14 hours ago, panthers55 said:

I just find it funny that when Hurney does well it is let's see how it plays out first before giving him credit  But the same folks don't wait to complain and give him the benefit of the doubt the other way. 

It's a side effect of everything around personnel moves coming down to a DG versus MH fight. Each side is looking for any tidbit of news to say 'see, my guy is great' or 'see, your guy is terrible'. I know its not really allowed on the Huddle - you've got to be a MH guy or a DG guy - but I don't care about that particular battle.

Any off-season move needs at least a season, sometimes two before it can be evaluated (drafts need a minimum of three). Of course, this is a pipe dream in the instant analysis world we live in.

In the original comment you responded to, I stated my premise that I see a weakness in the current leadership (Ron and Marty). When they make moves, even good ones, its late. The best analogy I can think of is a QB who has to see a guy is open versus a QB who throws guys open. Ron and Marty have to see the guy open, other teams seem like they see those openings faster, and have better strategies for addressing their needs. Moves like letting TD go are encouraging as they show that perhaps Ron and Marty are learning (whether through pressure from Mr. Tepper or on their own). I hope so, because Ron and Marty are running this offseason and at the end of the day, I want to see the Carolina Panthers have tremendous success.

[Shotgun]

Hurney is so awesome, now if he cuts Silatolu he should be GM of the year. Really impressive GM'ing.