Bill Barnwell: 5 offseason moves Panthers must make

[falconidae]

Did you mean to leave out this paragraph at the end of point 1? Possibly, considering what Barnwell says is likely to happen.

"...This brings us back to Williams, who was a second-team All-Pro right tackle in 2017 and is now a free agent. The Panthers briefly slotted Moton in as their starting left tackle in place of Kalil before moving him to the right side once Williams reinjured his knee. One option for the Panthers would be to cut Kalil, re-sign Williams, then move Moton to left tackle. It's high-risk -- Moton might not be able to play left tackle -- but they might also end up with the best possible combination of tackles available from this three-man bunch.

More likely, the Panthers will let Williams leave, keep Moton on the right side and give Kalil one more year at left tackle. Taking a tackle in the first few rounds of the 2019 draft should be in the cards for Carolina..."

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, falconidae said:

Did you mean to leave out this paragraph at the end of point 1? Possibly, considering what Barnwell says is likely to happen.

"...This brings us back to Williams, who was a second-team All-Pro right tackle in 2017 and is now a free agent. The Panthers briefly slotted Moton in as their starting left tackle in place of Kalil before moving him to the right side once Williams reinjured his knee. One option for the Panthers would be to cut Kalil, re-sign Williams, then move Moton to left tackle. It's high-risk -- Moton might not be able to play left tackle -- but they might also end up with the best possible combination of tackles available from this three-man bunch.

More likely, the Panthers will let Williams leave, keep Moton on the right side and give Kalil one more year at left tackle. Taking a tackle in the first few rounds of the 2019 draft should be in the cards for Carolina..."

The last scenario makes me nauseous.

[falconidae]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

The last scenario makes me nauseous.

Yeah, that paragraph is right after an ad that split up the point about tackles, figured he either just missed it or that last part just bothered him so much he refused to post it.

[Toomers]

  So handing a player who has been consistently one of the worst LTs in the NFL, 5 years running, 7M more(with no financial benefit is the smart move? Oh, this is if he even is on the field. He could just miss the season for “toe soreness” this year. 

  And still no one can answer why he didn’t come back last year after week 8? Why didn’t they play him when he already was getting paid? 

  If anyone in this FO let’s this happen, and compounds this whole mistake by throwing more money at it, should just be thrown out of the nearest window. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

17 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Did you mean to leave out this paragraph at the end of point 1? Possibly, considering what Barnwell says is likely to happen.

"...This brings us back to Williams, who was a second-team All-Pro right tackle in 2017 and is now a free agent. The Panthers briefly slotted Moton in as their starting left tackle in place of Kalil before moving him to the right side once Williams reinjured his knee. One option for the Panthers would be to cut Kalil, re-sign Williams, then move Moton to left tackle. It's high-risk -- Moton might not be able to play left tackle -- but they might also end up with the best possible combination of tackles available from this three-man bunch.

More likely, the Panthers will let Williams leave, keep Moton on the right side and give Kalil one more year at left tackle. Taking a tackle in the first few rounds of the 2019 draft should be in the cards for Carolina..."

Completely missed this, thanks for posting. 

And I absolutely agree in keeping Kalil one more year. This allows us to truly take the best player at #16.

[Toomers]

22 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think we need to decide if he is part of our future or not. If so, time to extend and get some short term cap relief. If not, time to cut ties. Cutting ties is tough for the same reasons that I skewered the idea of cutting Addison and Poe in another thread. It isn't that it doesn't make sense as an individual move but when you look at the scope of the guys we are losing to free agency, losing to retirement and are likely to cut, they have to be replaced somehow. You only have so many draft picks, all of which are a gamble. There is only so much money we can reasonably spend in free agency. There is a good chance if you gut the entire roster that you probably get worse and not better. 

I don't mean to say that if we cut Shaq alone the roster will go to poo but we can only make so many moves in an offseason and expect to improve. 

There’s also a good chance the same players perform at a similar level. Shaq hasn’t been worth close to that and paying that much to hope is not smart. And if Poe save us 9M, he should be gone. These aren’t the only players out there. Just like paying to retain an average safety. 

  If your reason for keeping a player is anything but value, that’s not good. So we should overpay to keep inferior players because of too much change. I can find a pretty good LB for around 10M. If we go 3-4, he’s going to have to be an ILB, who probably would be playing less in nickel. Which is most of the time. 

  There is still a lot of truth in your comments. That scenario happens. And I think you’re right about what is going to happen here. . I just don’t like the philosophy. And it seems to be a trend. And not just one GM or the other. Both. So please no one hijack this. 

[kungfoodude]

33 minutes ago, Toomers said:

There’s also a good chance the same players perform at a similar level. Shaq hasn’t been worth close to that and paying that much to hope is not smart. And if Poe save us 9M, he should be gone. These aren’t the only players out there. Just like paying to retain an average safety. 

  If your reason for keeping a player is anything but value, that’s not good. So we should overpay to keep inferior players because of too much change. I can find a pretty good LB for around 10M. If we go 3-4, he’s going to have to be an ILB, who probably would be playing less in nickel. Which is most of the time. 

  There is still a lot of truth in your comments. That scenario happens. And I think you’re right about what is going to happen here. . I just don’t like the philosophy. And it seems to be a trend. And not just one GM or the other. Both. So please no one hijack this. 

I don't even know if it is a philosophy as much as a raw reality. It's easy to cut every underperforming player but a path forward has to exist when you do that. The situation we are in as a franchise is that we have a lot more guys that are on that potential cut list than the keep list. But, we can't dump them all at once and be able to expect to survive. That is just reality.

I am not as down on guys like Shaq, Poe, Short or Addison as most. I think we just need to maneuver to be the best we can be with the situation that presents itself. A lot of these guys are going to be gone in the next couple of offseasons anyway.

[Snake]

Don't expect any of these moves.

[Toomers]

26 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't even know if it is a philosophy as much as a raw reality. It's easy to cut every underperforming player but a path forward has to exist when you do that. The situation we are in as a franchise is that we have a lot more guys that are on that potential cut list than the keep list. But, we can't dump them all at once and be able to expect to survive. That is just reality.

I am not as down on guys like Shaq, Poe, Short or Addison as most. I think we just need to maneuver to be the best we can be with the situation that presents itself. A lot of these guys are going to be gone in the next couple of offseasons anyway.

That’s about it. 

 Even the four you mentioned, I have varying opinions. 

Addison is still productive at a premium position. Since DEs “usually take a year” I can live with his number. Possibly restructure but not comfortable at his age. 

Short has to bounce back. Imperative. Then we see. Certainly not now. Again premium position. 

 I just think Poe sucks so that’s just an upgrade of addiction by subtraction. I also thought letting Star go was best(it was) but his replacement didn’t help. Which goes to your point of who you get to replace them. 

 Shaq just plays a position in flux, on a team that may be changing. Not his fault. I hate that any of this sounds harsh against him. 

[4Corners]

Pretty solid, respectable take from ESPN regarding the team. I’m just very surprised that they weren’t able to somehow rattle off a few paragraphs about Zion or duke. 

[Seoul_Panther]

2 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I think we need to decide if he is part of our future or not. If so, time to extend and get some short term cap relief. If not, time to cut ties. Cutting ties is tough for the same reasons that I skewered the idea of cutting Addison and Poe in another thread. It isn't that it doesn't make sense as an individual move but when you look at the scope of the guys we are losing to free agency, losing to retirement and are likely to cut, they have to be replaced somehow. You only have so many draft picks, all of which are a gamble. There is only so much money we can reasonably spend in free agency. There is a good chance if you gut the entire roster that you probably get worse and not better. 

I don't mean to say that if we cut Shaq alone the roster will go to poo but we can only make so many moves in an offseason and expect to improve. 

  I absolutely agree with this. People talk about Short and Poe as though they are already gone, but if we use the draft to replace them we can’t fix T, S or DE.

 The difference between Short and Thompson is that Kawaan has shown that he ‘can’ play at a high level. If you watched Shaq play not knowing he was a 1st rounder you would guess that he’s more like and 2nd or 3rd. Not terrible, just underwhelming.

[top dawg]

14 hours ago, AU-panther said:

1:  The numbers for Kalil are a bit misleading they way he worded it.  That 14.7m has already been paid.  The team is going to "eat" that no matter whay, only question is what years you account for it.  Him playing this year doesn't decrease that at all.

His new money for this year is $7m.  That is what you have to decide if he is worth it.

4:  Isn't the fifth year option for Butler in 2020?

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/vernon-butler-18978/

At this point he is still cheap and you hope he has a break out year.  If not you decline the option next.

 

Well, if what you say is true, then a decision has to be made as to whether you pay Kalil to actually play (which will be in large part due to who you're able to acquire that's actually better), be an expensive backup option---a.k.a depth, or pay him the same money to be (likely) another team's depth, or pay him to be on the couch.

If you can't find anyone better, then why wouldn't you keep him? Sounds like (from what you're saying) that we're stuck with paying him the money either way, and that we'll really not gain or lose anything. I mean, do we really lose more money by keeping him and forcing him to "earn" his money?

And why keep saying things to the effect that, "I can't believe more people don't understand contracts," because it's not like these football contracts are cut and dried? Come on, man. If you have some knowledge or expertise, then you can't expect everyone to have the same knowledge.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Yes, we lose $7m more in cap space by keeping him. Dead cap is gone no matter what. It’s the extra $7m and no he’s not worth keeping. Clark and Newhouse were about the same for a ton less. I want no part of keeping Kalil.

We should have drafted Crosby (Oregon T, beat out the guy we traded for) instead of Haynes. Cheap and a no brainer. Instead, knowing that Kalil sucks, we were letting Norwell walk and Ryan retiring and Hurney does 0 for OL. Ugh, I hope we learned our lesson but damn it would be nice to have two young tackles who got a ton of experience last year instead of one.

I am pretty amazed to see people even discussing keeping Kalil. How quickly everyone forgets how insanely bad he is.

[RumHam]

Ron be like, "Well Amini is an all-world player with a lot of heart. We can plug him in at LT if we need to. Let's get him resigned 5 years 50 million."