Don’t count on ever seeing Old Cam again

[thefuzz]

Right when it all starts slowing down, the body can't do what it could before.

 

We have heard many NFL players, especially QB's talk that way.  Cam doesn't have to be able to do what he did for the Panthers to win...would we all love to see that again?  Sure, but we can win with 85% of what Cam was.

I do not believe that Ron is good enough to do that though.  He relied on Cam being great to win, I'm not sure that he can with Cam just being good.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

I think we do. Just like 2015 he'll have the smaller, quicker WRs that can get separation. Only this time those guys can actually catch the ball consistently and take it to the house at any moment. 

Reality: Forget the quality of his play. Newton was never going to be able to sustain the style of play he had in 2015 into his 30s.

He was always going to have to adjust, and last season showed that he could.

The question now is did our coaching staff start the transition too late. And given that this was previously overseen by Mike Shula, well...

[Navy_football]

2 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

I mean his 2015 season was a top 10 statistical season for a QB of all time and would be even higher if Ginn hadn’t dropped like 5 wide open TDs that year... 

Why people insist we’ve been waiting for Cam to be a dumpoff game manager with a deep ball confuses the hell out of me. He had 45 total TDs to 10 INTs that year and went 15-1...

I’ll take that over whatever QB you are referring to any day. 

A dump off manager to guys that can actually make plays after the catch is what the team needs now. Don't need him to throw the ball 30 yards to get a 30 yard gain every time now - with the WR falling down after the catch. This is a different team. 

This team with a Cam that gets the ball out quicker would have faired much better in the 2015 Super Bowl.  

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

This.

Cam was on his way to the transformation we've been waiting on since 2011. And then the wheels fell off along with his right arm. He doesn't need to have the best arm in the NFL anymore, as long as he's seeing the field and not hesitating on dumping the ball off to CMC. If he can keep the defense honest with the ability to sling a 40-50 yarder, he'll be fine. Don't need him throwing 30-40 yard lasers into tight coverage all game like before. 

Honestly, there's a lot of truth to this. When healthy, Cam is arguably the most physically talented QB the game has ever seen. But, for the majority of his career we've used that talent as a crutch on offense. Cam led the tram in rush more often than not and we consistently asked him to make the toughest throws a QB has to make to receivers who couldn't separate nor reliably catch a football on passing plays that usually lacked a checkdown option. It was a recipe for disaster but Cam's unique talents made up for it. 

Now we have receivers who can actually create separation and we have the best receiving RB in the NFL as a safety valve. In the first third of the season, Cam didn't have his fastball or his deep ball but he was still putting up numbers that would've had him in MVP discussions in most seasons. Even if Cam doesn't get back his cannon, he can absolutely still be an elite QB and we've already seen that.

[DeeJay]

Think its time to maybe start developing a new qb in this upcoming draft?

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Navy_football said:

A dump off manager to guys that can actually make plays after the catch is what the team needs now. Don't need him to throw the ball 30 yards to get a 30 yard gain every time now - with the WR falling down after the catch. This is a different team. 

This team with a Cam that gets the ball out quicker would have faired much better in the 2015 Super Bowl.  

Joe Montana rode that style of play to four rings.

[hepcat]

The irony of saying we will never see the Old Cam when in reality this is Old Cam. We should say "pre-injury" Cam

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, DeeJay said:

Think its time to maybe start developing a new qb in this upcoming draft?

Even if he was fully healthy, you'd have to at least start thinking about it because he's only got two years left on his contract and there's no guarantee Tepper would be willing to pay what his agent will be looking for.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

A dump off manager to guys that can actually make plays after the catch is what the team needs now. Don't need him to throw the ball 30 yards to get a 30 yard gain every time now - with the WR falling down after the catch. This is a different team. 

This team with a Cam that gets the ball out quicker would have faired much better in the 2015 Super Bowl.  

The Super Bowl boondoggle is exactly why I campaigned sooooo much for CMC before that draft...even sitting at 8.

There was 1 player who I thought could have made that game completely different, that was CMC.  Looking back there were a couple of those players in that draft (Kamara espcially), but no one knew that back then.

Looking back we got two of those guys back to back in CMC and Samuel.  Think that SB loss wasn't on DG's mind during that draft?  Not to mention the mountain of a man, Moton that could have helped Cam stay upright.

[Navy_football]

4 minutes ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

I agree there. Drops were a huge issue. I dunno. I miss old Cam and I know the reality is he’s on a decline. I don’t want him to be a game manager :(

Heck no. Cam will never be a game manager. It's not in his DNA. He'll take shots in the course of a game, that's just the way he's wired. 

Brady and Brees get the ball out quick too. I don't think anyone would call them "game managers". Cam needed to evolve into this type of QB for longetity's sake and to now allow his playmakers (finally) to make plays. 

[Navy_football]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Reality: Forget the quality of his play. Newton was never going to be able to sustain the style of play he had in 2015 into his 30s.

He was always going to have to adjust, and last season showed that he could.

The question now is did our coaching staff start the transition too late. And given that this was previously overseen by Mike Shula, well...

I don't think Shula knew how to transition into the new age of passing. I swear the route combinations were pitiful. Never created mismatches. Rarely ran rub routes - particularly in the red zone. Just line up and run our play. We don't care what the stinking defense is doing. 

That setup lasted way longer than it should have. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I don't think Shula knew how to transition into the new age of passing. I swear the route combinations were pitiful. Never created mismatches. Rarely ran rub routes - particularly in the red zone. Just line up and run our play. We don't care what the stinking defense is doing. 

That setup lasted way longer than it should have. 

That's on Ron.

He believed in the old Buddy Ryan strategy he used with Randall Cunningham.  Ryan believed that as long as Cunningham made two or three big plays a game, his defense would handle the rest.

Worth pointing out that Ryan never won (or made) a Super Bowl using that strategy, but Rivera probably believed he had a quarterback that was even more ideal than Cunningham for that role.

As far as actual championship wins though, same result.

That's a big part of what we have to "evolve" away from.

[Dunn]

Maybe taking a little off his fastball will improve WR catching ability.  

[LinvilleGorge]

10 minutes ago, Dunn said:

Maybe taking a little off his fastball will improve WR catching ability.  

That's what KB thought too and he was still in the top 10 in drop percentage. Funchess had the highest drop percentage in the NFL this season with Cam lacking the ability to put any mustard on the ball at all.

You either have hands or you don't. Gettleman thought hands were coachable. They aren't.