The evolution is in process

[panthers55]

13 hours ago, Kevin Greene said:

Hmm, no mention of horrible in game clock management, or a philosophical change about how Cam Newton is used/abused, or the inability to not leave better players on the bench behind the veteran he trusts.. That's a shame.

I think we are going to a game manager like Atlanta did now that Ron took over the defensive play calling. That should help the clock management. Norv makes the decisions with Cam and with a year of experience with Cam in the offense and hopefully at 100%, I am excited about the evolution of the offense.  And with Rivera calling the defense and maybe putting  in more Baltimore style pass rush concepts, this defense could be nasty again. Free agency and the draft should tell us a lot. Honestly Tepper and Hurney seem to have things going in the right direction after a terrible collapse due to injury.

[tiger7_88]

50 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

So there is a 24 hour limitation on admitting you are wrong or it doesn't count?

No limitation at all.

But the time involved reflects that one is immediate honesty and the other is CYA bullpoo.  Like rayzor said above and I've said myself many time lo' these many years, I've seen this Rivera movie before and it inevitably ends exactly the same way.

[panthers55]

14 hours ago, Gladniator1 said:

Rivera should have been "self scouting" every damn Monday after a game.  Reading that he waited until the season was over to analyze the team (you know, LONG after it even matters) makes me want him fired even more.  If that's even possible.  I've told all my close friends that are also Panther fans that I'm throwing them a party the day he gets fired.  The party might have to wait a week or so, but it will be announced that same day!  LOL.

 

During the season so much goes into the game plan and preparing for the next opponent, you don't have time for true self scouting which as he said was looking at every play in every game and asking why we did this or that. Seriously what do you get out of almost hoping Rivera fails so it can justify your constant criticism.  Part of being a fan rather than a critic is hoping things change and if you believe all the bad stuff, you should give equal sway to the good. Instead of blindly accepting the negative and doubting anything positive. If I felt that way all the time I would find a team that made me happy. Or be more happy about the team I was backing.

[Panthera onca]

Warning signs were present from the beginning of last season. Why would a head coach wait until a 7 game losing streak happens to consider making any substantive changes? That is being delusional and clueless and inflexible.

[Toomers]

[panthers55]

14 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

No limitation at all.

But the time involved reflects that one is immediate honesty and the other is CYA bullpoo.  Like rayzor said above and I've said myself many time lo' these many years, I've seen this Rivera movie before and it inevitably ends exactly the same way.

You don't know it is poo if it is new. If Tepper is involved and pushing then you haven't seen this movie at all. This is a new owner who is  directing the show. This should be the time for optimism. If the reports about Cam are true then this should be a great year. I hope Fewell coupled with a good draft and FA for the secondary can shore up the defense. I think the idea we could be going to a 3-4 hybrid is exciting. Sure we talked about it but it looks like with Tepper's enthusiasm as a new owner with his new 2.5 billion toy, we are actually going to do it. I would say change is happening as we speak. 

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You don't know it is poo if it is new. If Tepper is involved and pushing then you haven't seen this movie at all. This is a new owner who is  directing the show. This should be the time for optimism. If the reports about Cam are true then this should be a great year. I hope Fewell coupled with a good draft and FA for the secondary can shore up the defense. I think the idea we could be going to a 3-4 hybrid is exciting. Sure we talked about it but it looks like with Tepper's enthusiasm as a new owner with his new 2.5 billion toy, we are actually going to do it. I would say change is happening as we speak. 

Time will tell. This all just feels like watching a John Fox sequel. 

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Time will tell. This all just feels like watching a John Fox sequel. 

And it might be a train wreck which ends with everyone  DOA  and a new group incoming. Unless you want Rivera gone so badly you hope for a bad year and care more about that, than the Panthers winning and doing great, which makes your fandom a little skewed. 

I hope we come back and win the Superbowl this year, and think with a healthy Cam it is possible. If we suck you can bet Ron is gone so it will happen if we have another losing year. But it isn't something you predict or hope for. That is worse case scenario unless you are a Rivera hater. And again you have all Fall to criticize every lapse. The Spring is the time for optimism.

[kungfoodude]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

 And it might be a train wreck which ends with everyone  DOA  and a new group incoming. Unless you want Rivera gone so badly you hope for a bad year and care more about that, than the Panthers winning and doing great, which makes your fandom a little skewed. 

 I hope we come back and win the Superbowl this year, and think with a healthy Cam it is possible. If we suck you can bet Ron is gone so it will happen if we have another losing year. But it isn't something you predict or hope for. That is worse case scenario unless you are a Rivera hater. And again you have all Fall to criticize every lapse. The Spring is the time for optimism.

Whoa dogg, that is a lot to infer from me just saying it seems like a John Fox sequel. 

Of course I want the Panthers to do well but I don't have a lot of faith in the current regime to bring us that success. Admittedly, the odds were stacked against them with the roster we had and the injuries we sustained but we were winning with those same guys. I do not see a compelling argument for excusing the kind of slide we ended up on. The bulk of the blame for that has to lie with the coaching staff. Heck, the coaching changes mid-season was basically an admission of guilt. Hell, we could all see Cam wasn't able to play going into the last week's of the season but yet we continue to trot him out there. So.....how does that fault not lie on the coaches as well?

If it all becomes hunky dorky next year and we ride into another 10-12 win season, sure I will be happy but that isn't going to change my opinion of this looking like a John Fox sequel. That will take some sustained winning seasons without the kind of obvious coaching blunders we are accustomed to seeing from Ron and even moreso, the kind of guys he has been hiring and keeping on his staff.

[tiger7_88]

33 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You don't know it is poo if it is new. If Tepper is involved and pushing then you haven't seen this movie at all.

Which brings back the additional point made in this thread:  why should a failing coach HAVE TO BE PUSHED TO MAKE A CHANGE?

Everything you bring to this argument in support of Ron is based on hope and unicorn farts.

Every point that the critics have made in this thread is based upon the evidence of Ron Rivera's head coaching career.

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Whoa dogg, that is a lot to infer from me just saying it seems like a John Fox sequel. 

Of course I want the Panthers to do well but I don't have a lot of faith in the current regime to bring us that success. Admittedly, the odds were stacked against them with the roster we had and the injuries we sustained but we were winning with those same guys. I do not see a compelling argument for excusing the kind of slide we ended up on. The bulk of the blame for that has to lie with the coaching staff. Heck, the coaching changes mid-season was basically an admission of guilt. Hell, we could all see Cam wasn't able to play going into the last week's of the season but yet we continue to trot him out there. So.....how does that fault not lie on the coaches as well?

If it all becomes hunky dorky next year and we ride into another 10-12 win season, sure I will be happy but that isn't going to change my opinion of this looking like a John Fox sequel. That will take some sustained winning seasons without the kind of obvious coaching blunders we are accustomed to seeing from Ron and even moreso, the kind of guys he has been hiring and keeping on his staff.

I responded to your post but it wasn't directed solely at you.  As long as your proof is by your own definition, years down the road, why not enjoy the ride along the way. Unless negative is the new positive.

[Waldo]

2 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Which brings back the additional point made in this thread:  why should a failing coach HAVE TO BE PUSHED TO MAKE A CHANGE?

Everything you bring to this argument in support of Ron is based on hope and unicorn farts.

Every point that the critics have made in this thread is based upon the evidence of Ron Rivera's head coaching career.

Hope and unicorns farts is an apt description of Ron's time as a HC.

But we went 15-1 when the players were doing the coaching and lost the SB and the other game when it was time for the coaching staff to step up and they produced a loss. Great coach tho...

[panthers55]

10 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

Which brings back the additional point made in this thread:  why should a failing coach HAVE TO BE PUSHED TO MAKE A CHANGE?

Everything you bring to this argument in support of Ron is based on hope and unicorn farts.

Every point that the critics have made in this thread is based upon the evidence of Ron Rivera's head coaching career.

Because as he admitted, he gets comfortable. It is human nature and he needs those around him to sometimes  push and bring things up.  It is a character flaw he admits to having and says he is working to get better.  What you bring is the same negative attitude purposely downplaying the positives. What I bring is a hope and belief that Tepper and Hurney and Ron have charted out a positive future for the Panthers  and will set us back on a winning track.  I like my half full approach and believe that I have just as many if not more reasons to be optimistic as you do pessimistic. And I get to be happy in the process. 

[Move the Panthers to Raleigh]

On 2/8/2019 at 2:52 PM, kungfoodude said:

We will be successful next year because it ends in an odd number. Boom. Change is in the air!

2008 and 2014 were decent years