Is Gary still out of reach?

[micnificent28]

16 minutes ago, SmittysLawnGuy said:

Pssst... Since Gary was the number #1 ranked recruit coming out of high school and is 6'5 285lbs, he may not be your best example of just filling out. Dudes an athletic freak. I for one wish there had been more production but hell he'd probably be going #1 had he put up great stats too. Seems a bit risky for a 1st. Give me Ferrell or Sweat ahead of him.

Jus because your a big kid and out grow your age group your done filling out? That’s a poor example, yes he is a freak, but looking for production when your playing 3-4 end which it is the ends job to eat up double teams not get sacks is dumb. Your job is to take on 2 guys, they weren’t asking him to get sacks, now does that mean he can’t do it?

I look at this as a lot of guys looked at cam coming out, running quarter back who can’t read defenses, does that mean he can’t do it? No. It just wasn’t asked of him. Cam was actually designated pocket passer coming out of high school who became a runner, which show with athleticism anything is possible. Everything in the draft is a crap shoot. If your going to swing give me the guy with the highest potential and I think that’s Gary even over bosa as far as potential. 

Bosa is a more sure fire thing I get it but at 16 you aren’t getting a perfect prospect. We would be lucky even if he was there at 16. Gary is a better prospect than Davenport for the saints who was gone before 16 so you would be lucky to land him here.

[LinvilleGorge]

You keep saying that 3-4 DEs just eat up double teams, but the the top 3 sack artists in the NFL this season were 3-4 DEs. Aaron Donald (still listed as a DT, but he plays the end in their base 3-4), JJ Watt, and Chris Jones. 3-4 DEs generally have 4-3 three technique traits.  All of those guys are 280+ with Jones being the heaviest at 310. They aren't just primarily block eaters like a nose tackle.

[SmittysLawnGuy]

16 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Jus to because your a big kid and our grow your age group your done filling out? That’s a poor example, yes he is a freak, but looking for production when your playing 3-4 end which it is the ends job to eat up double teams not get sacks is dumb. Your job is to take on 2 guys, they weren’t asking him to get sacks, now does that mean he can’t do it?

I look at this as a lot of guys looked at cam coming out, running quarter back who can’t read defenses, does that mean he can’t do it? No. It just wasn’t asked of him. Cam was actually designated pocket passer coming out of high school who became a runner, which show with athleticism anything is possible. Everything in the draft is a crap shoot. If your going to swing give me the guy with the highest potential and I think that’s Gary even over bosa as far as potential. 

Bosa is a more sure fire thing I get it but at 16 you aren’t getting a perfect prospect. We would be lucky even if he was there at 16. Gary is a better prospect than Davenport for the saints who was gone before 16 so you would be lucky to land him here.

I'll give you that. Those 3-4 outside linemen can be a tricky projection. Hell he may have dominated in a 4-3. Guess we just have to trust in Ole Hurns and pray he gets it right. Though between Gary, Ferrell and Sweat most likely two will be gone. I'll gladly take who's left n leave it out of Hurneys hands.

[Toomers]

   I’d take Ferrell, Sweat, Simmons or Wilkins before him. But sure wouldn’t be disappointed if we wound up with Gary. The one I don’t trust is Oliver. I would be shocked if we didn’t get one of these players. 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, Toomers said:

   I’d take Ferrell, Sweat, Simmons or Wilkins before him. But sure wouldn’t be disappointed if we wound up with Gary. The one I don’t trust is Oliver. I would be shocked if we didn’t get one of these players. 

Yeah, I know everyone is panicking and I'd feel A LOT better at #9 vs. #16, but I'm hoping the depth of this edge rusher class will lead to someone nice falling in our laps. Teams reaching on QBs is our best bet.

[Black&BlueBubba]

With Teppers new montra of analytics I thought I would throw this in. There are 2 parts of the analytics. Production and athleticism.  Gary is Very much lacking in the production part. But I assume he will light up the combine athletically.  

 

[micnificent28]

12 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You keep saying that 3-4 DEs just eat up double teams, but the the top 3 sack artists in the NFL this season were 3-4 DEs. Aaron Donald (still listed as a DT, but he plays the end in their base 3-4), JJ Watt, and Chris Jones. 3-4 DEs generally have 4-3 three technique traits.  All of those guys are 280+ with Jones being the heaviest at 310. They aren't just primarily block eaters like a nose tackle.

In a traditional 3-4 scheme yes that Is true. Are you comparing 2 playoff teams with Donald and Suh plus brockers on the defensive line to Michigan defense in college? You can’t double team all of them which is why they find success. A I don’t think the rams run a true 3-4 I mean name there pass rushing outside backers?

You can’t because I don’t think they have them. They have coverage linebackers like mark Barron a converted safety something like Davis coming out of Georgia. That guy Littleton or whatever seems small as well. Add in that I can’t name another guy on the Michigan deference worthy of a double team and guys who were gonna double and triple team?

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, I know everyone is panicking and I'd feel A LOT better at #9 vs. #16, but I'm hoping the depth of this edge rusher class will lead to someone nice falling in our laps. Teams reaching on QBs is our best bet.

Hoping for at least one WR and an OL or two. I don’t think any are worth our 1st, so a couple going ahead of us helps. The only players I feel are no doubt gone are Bosa, Williams, and Allen. Everyone else seems to be all over the place. 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

In a traditional 3-4 scheme yes that Is true. Are you comparing 2 playoff teams with Donald and Suh plus brockers on the defensive line to Michigan defense in college? You can’t double team all of them which is why they find success. A I don’t think the rams run a true 3-4 I mean name there pass rushing outside backers?

You can’t because I don’t think they have them. They have coverage linebackers like mark Barron a converted safety something like Davis coming out of Georgia. That guy Littleton or whatever seems small as well. Add in that I can’t name another guy on the Michigan deference worthy of a double team and guys who were gonna double and triple team?

This is the first year the Rams have ran a 3-4 so they lack great traditional 3-4 edge rushers.

Guess what man, every elite NFL pass rushing prospect is seeing tons of double teams in college. Them's the breaks.

I get it, you like Rashan Gary. There's some things to like. But don't be blinded by the man crush. LOL!

[micnificent28]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This is the first year the Rams have ran a 3-4 so they lack great traditional 3-4 edge rushers.

Guess what man, every elite NFL pass rushing prospect is seeing tons of double teams in college. Them's the breaks.

I get it, you like Rashan Gary. There's some things to like. But don't be blinded by the man crush. LOL!

This may be the first year they ran a 3-4 and im sure it often didnt look like at 3-4 because they dont have the personnel to truely run it. I believe they would have to slowly transition into it while running a lot of 4-3 schemes. I don't see one good pass rushing linebacker on there roster. I get it you don't like Gary and thats fine. Chances are if he does decent at the combine hes long gone anyway. I just dislike how much of the huddle will say oh Sweat,Farrell, and Oliver are better....No not really, It's all whats asked of you. I will take potential which has been shown on tape since high school to now,over a guy like Ferrell a more effort artist than anything any day of the week. you can't teach Athleticism and talent. Guy is a baller, and at worse you what kick him inside in a 3 tech and hes good there. I don't see the downside.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

This may be the first year they ran a 3-4 and im sure it often didnt look like at 3-4 because they dont have the personnel to truely run it. I believe they would have to slowly transition into it while running a lot of 4-3 schemes. I don't see one good pass rushing linebacker on there roster. I get it you don't like Gary and thats fine. Chances are if he does decent at the combine hes long gone anyway. I just dislike how much of the huddle will say oh Sweat,Farrell, and Oliver are better....No not really, It's all whats asked of you. I will take potential which has been shown on tape since high school to now,over a guy like Ferrell a more effort artist than anything any day of the week. you can't teach Athleticism and talent. Guy is a baller, and at worse you what kick him inside in a 3 tech and hes good there. I don't see the downside.

Read through this thread. I don't dislike Gary. I'm just not swinging from his nuts. I don't care what a guy did in HS or what his HS recruiting ranking was. You can't teach athleticism and talent, but you can't teach effort either. The majority of 1st round busts have the athleticism and talent, but they lack something else whether it's desire, effort, instincts, whatever. Ultimately, I'd rely heavily talking to those close to Gary to form my opinion on him as an NFL prospect. Does he love football? Does he put in the work? Is he coachable? Is he hungry?

No one is questioning Gary's athleticism, talent, or potential. But I do think it's fair to question his lack of production on the stat sheet and lack of QB pressures. Yes, he saw a lot of double teams. Every elite DL does. My concern is that he's a great athlete but not necessarily a great football player. Maybe he was just trying to avoid injury until he had an opportunity to get paid. Who knows?

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, Toomers said:

   I’d take Ferrell, Sweat, Simmons or Wilkins before him. But sure wouldn’t be disappointed if we wound up with Gary. The one I don’t trust is Oliver. I would be shocked if we didn’t get one of these players. 

I'm with you on Oliver.  He is a DT all the way, but I don't like his size for a DT.  275 or so is very light for a DT in a 4-3 alignment, and he is more of a run stopper than pass rusher at this point.  Like Gary, he didn't have many pressures relative to other penetrating DL, which concerns me about his ability to be disruptive against the pass.  

I just worry that once he gets to the NFL, he'll be engulfed by bigger, stronger, and technically superior O-linemen.  I'm not saying he'll be a bust or that he can't become a great DT, just that there are some concerns and legitimate bust potential.

[micnificent28]

I have seen gary going as high as number 2.... the conversation is just purely for speculation. I dout hes tehre when we pick

[SOJA]

There will likely be a pretty good player at 16. The question becomes is it a player at a position of need for us.

At nine- you almost guarantee that happening. At 16, it's far riskier. 

 

We should all just pray lots of QBs and WRs are stupidly picked in the top fifteen. There's an path for that to happen if all teams that need a QB or WR panic because of the lack of depth in this draft