Offensive Tackle

[Black&BlueBubba]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

 My point was they did not play him the rest of the year at LT---it makes no difference how good you think he played that one game---I said this very clearly:  They had the opportunity to keep him at LT and did not.  Now, my point was this--read my posts carefully--they did not play him at LT when they had the chance to play him at LT FOR 15  GAMES--instead, they signed a street free agent to protect Cam's blind side.  That is a fact.  My inference was not that he cannot play LT--what I think--what you think---has nothing to do with it.  There are no signs that they like him at LT or he would have played--wait for it---Left Tackle.

You suggest that your position is based on facts---it is not.  You cherry pick facts from the  first game of the year in emergency duty to support your opinion.  The fact that he played well at LT is opinion, one that I agree with, by the way.  However, the fact that matters is this:  he never played Left Tackle again--and we had a huge need.  That is the only fact that matters---forget his stats--vs. Dallas in Game 1.  The Panthers know those stats too.

So what facts that I stated were wrong?  You may not like the facts but they are what they are.  What part of those facts are cherry picking?  You were the one that said that he didn’t go to LT after Khalil got hurt   That sir is an INCORRECT FACT   

When did they sign Clark?   Only after Williams got hurt.  They were planning on going with Moton at LT for the year.  And because Clark is a LT they kept him at LT  once they signed him  and moved Moton back to right.

Look im not trying to start a fight.  But you keep bringing up the point that they didn’t want him at LT for months.   I completely disagree.  But my facts aren’t wrong.  

I guess one of us will have to eat crow this year.  

[OriginalPantherDan]

On 1/26/2019 at 8:26 PM, top dawg said:

It's pretty simple. Moton is more comfortable playing right tackle, and indeed might be better at it. If we can land a true talent that plays left tackle, then you just don't pass on that kind of opportunity. 

DEs are important, yes, but a legit DE is much easier to find via draft and free agency than a legit LT. Most teams, unless they're just mismanaged never ever let legit LTs go.

Then how do you explain the Vikings letting Matt Kalil slip through their fingers? 

[MHS831]

12 hours ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

So what facts that I stated were wrong?  You may not like the facts but they are what they are.  What part of those facts are cherry picking?  You were the one that said that he didn’t go to LT after Khalil got hurt   That sir is an INCORRECT FACT   I SAID HE PLAYED LT IN EMERGENCY DUTY (which was when Kalil went down).  Nobody disputed his partial Game 1 at LT---I reference it more than once.

When did they sign Clark?   Only after Williams got hurt.  They were planning on going with Moton at LT for the year.  THEN WHY DID THEY NOT GO WITH MOTON at LT--WHY DID THEY SIGN A LT ? ( your  words >>>>)   And because Clark is a LT (So they planned  on Moton playing LT, but they signed a LT in free agency, who could not play RT.  Come again?) they kept him at LT  once they signed him  and moved Moton back to right.  (So where in this description  does it suggest that   they like Moton at LT? Would it not have been easier to find a starting RT in free agency than a starting LT?  In addition, you fail to mention that the same set of circumstances applied to Newhouse.  If all of these street free agents are good enough to keep Moton on the right side, where is the logic that he is going to be the starting LT this year? 

Look im not trying to start a fight. Me neither, but I am tired of stating facts (they had the chance to play him at LT and did not) and getting attacked because that simple truth does not support some paper theory that he is the next great LT here.  I would try him at LT, but the Panthers saw the Dallas game and did not keep him at LT-period.  full stop.   But you keep bringing up the point that they didn’t want him at LT for months.  No--read carefully.  I say there is no evidence to suggest that they wanted him at LT--see you are making  this personal and I am trying to point out that there is no concrete, substantial reason to think they will suddenly see the light and move him to LT when they had the chance in  2018 and did not--your reasons may sound logical, but they do not take into account one simple truth--LT is the second most important position on the field and you protect your $100m investment with the best LT on the roster at all times--again,  full stop.   I completely disagree.  But my facts aren’t wrong.  But they are irrelevant.   You never address the biggest and most telling piece of evidence there is--the only one I am  presenting---what did they do when they had the chance to play him at LT? (A: they signed a free agent LT and kept him at RT.  That makes no sense if you understand the role of the NFL LT.)

I guess one of us will have to eat crow this year.  (Not really.  You misrepresent my position and purpose. I said that I want him to get his shot at LT.  The fact that  he was not there as Cam  took a beating infuriated me.  However, they kept Moton at RT.  I saw no evidence that they wanted him at LT--because he was not playing LT--Clark and Newhouse were.)

  See my bolded comments above.  I hope it helps you understand what I am saying.  

I enjoy the debate and hope you are right--but I do not feel confident that the Panthers agree with us about Moton.  That is all I am  saying.

[Black&BlueBubba]

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

  See my bolded comments above.  I hope it helps you understand what I am saying.  

I enjoy the debate and hope you are right--but I do not feel confident that the Panthers agree with us about Moton.  That is all I am  saying.

As you can tell I negotiate for a living.  I enjoy also.  I don’t mean it as a personal attack.  

I guess where I disagree that he was being judged against 2 off the street players.  One Newhouse was not off the street( although pretty close. Traded Buffalo a 7th rd for him). Personally it’s my opinion that the decision was made between Clark and Moton.  And since Clark has his most recent experience at LT and Moton at RT.  That is just is my opinion. 

Personally I think Motons ceiling is higher at RT but I think he is our best option for LT going forward.  I’m just not impressed with the LT in this draft class.  

My personal option is Moton at LT and Jawaan Taylor at RT.  Taylor is a sleeper no more. 

Cheers mate.  

[RumHam]

i'm all in for solidifying the offensive line by whatever means necessary.  first round LT, second round C, third round we can still get a good pass rusher just b/c the draft is that deep. We need veterans in the secondary. However, Hurney will probably lick his chops at another LB.

[ncfan]

1 guy

I really want to see at the combine

 

He's not worth the 16 spot.  But if we trade down towards the bottom of the 1st

 

 

Yoney Cajuste

[MHS831]

23 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Fact is that you still completely ignore that Ron had a starting lineup of Moton at LT and Daryl Williams at RT week 1 and Moton played LT in preseason including the actual dress rehearsal week 3 against NE. If Williams doesn’t get hurt, that’s the lineup. He did and we signed Clark and the team even said Clark is better on the left so Moton went RT the rest of the year. Once he started 13-14 games at RT, no coach is going to move him back. It’s one thing when he had been mixed in preseason and played both, it’s another to move him after 3 months at one spot. 

If you want to say he had limited reps at LT, fine he only really got aroun 3 games worth, but  saying there is NOTHING to suggest the team will play him at LT, when he was our starting LT to begin the season, is false.

  Preseason?  What about Weeks 2-17?  To put  a street free agent at LT is stupid if you think Moton is a LT.  They went into free agency and signed a LT.  Was Newhouse  also a better LT than RT? 

You continue to cycle a total misunderstanding of my point--not an opinion--an observation. Where is the evidence (forget emergency duty and preseason) that Moton is a LT?  Not my opinion---the coach's opinion.    Do you understand the difference between LT and RT? 

Preseason: Moton was competing for the LT job--he got a look vs. NE.  NE was very vanilla in preseason--they always are.  You saw the future that game?  Lorenzo Doss led the team in tackles that game-should we pencil him in as the nickel in 2019?

 

[ChibCU]

5 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

  Preseason: Moton was competing for the LT job--he got a look vs. NE.  NE was very vanilla in preseason--they always are.  You saw the future that game?  Lorenzo Doss led the team in tackles that game-should we pencil him in as the nickel in 2019?

 

If it means no Captain, let's go!

[Mr. Scot]

41 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Preseason?  What about Weeks 2-17?  To put  a street free agent at LT is stupid if you think Moton is a LT.  They went into free agency and signed a LT.  

You question our current leadership's ability to be stupid?

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

As you can tell I negotiate for a living.  I enjoy also.  I don’t mean it as a personal attack.  

I guess where I disagree that he was being judged against 2 off the street players.  One Newhouse was not off the street( although pretty close. Traded Buffalo a 7th rd for him). Personally it’s my opinion that the decision was made between Clark and Moton.  And since Clark has his most recent experience at LT and Moton at RT.  That is just is my opinion. 

Personally I think Motons ceiling is higher at RT but I think he is our best option for LT going forward.  I’m just not impressed with the LT in this draft class.  

My personal option is Moton at LT and Jawaan Taylor at RT.  Taylor is a sleeper no more. 

Cheers mate.  

I did not take it as a personal attack, I took it as you were assuming that my observations support my opinion--that Moton is no LT--I was simply stating there is no evidence based on 2018 that the Panthers will put Moton at LT. 

I agree with the RT comment---but I have not seen him enough at LT to understand why they did not put him there.. I was not negotiating--I  was stating a fact--there is no evidence (based on 2018) that he will be the LT.

If we do not re-sign Williams, that will tell you the story--Moton on a  first contract is cheaper and would go to RT.  Marty may not re-sign Williams and they might be waiting  to see before making any LT comments about Moton.  If we sign him, maybe then they will suggest Moton to LT--which is bad for Kalil. I  do not see all 3 on the roster in 2019. 

Cheers

 

[MHS831]

On 1/27/2019 at 2:33 PM, Mr. Scot said:

Is the same coach that kept Amini Silatolu starting over Andrew Norwell until he got hurt still making the decisions?

Same guy that wanted to keep Curtis Samuel and DJ Moore behind Torrey Smith regardless of the obvious difference in performance?

I think that just might have something to do with it.

I agree, and this supports my statement:  There is no evidence from 2018  to suggest that they will play Moton at LT.    People provided evidence from preseason game #3 and when Moton (the only T with a jersey) was inserted at LT in an emergency situation.   Those two appearances were not evidence that they think Moton will be a LT because they occurred before Moton was NOT a LT. 

I want Moton at LT--based on what I have seen.  I do not understand why he was not put there.

[MHS831]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You question our current leadership's ability to be stupid?

No--it is not ability--it is pure action.  But Yes.  I  am not saying Moton should not be the LT, I  am saying that our leaders showed no interest in Moton at LT to such a degree, they brought in a street free agent LT.  Then we kept the same leadership.

 

[bandu]

I I really like the idea of a kid on the right & Moton on the left...just my 2

[MHS831]

40 minutes ago, bandu said:

I I really like the idea of a kid on the right & Moton on the left...just my 2

Could happen.  Moton staying on the right side is one of the main reasons I lost hope in RR.