Offensive Tackle

[JARROD]

This is quickly getting fueled into an us versus them type of argument where there is no reason, only “I want this, you are wrong” followed by “you are wrong I want this”. Everything is between is just senseless conjecture.

we have OT and DE needs. If we indeed use 2 of our first 4 picks on OT and C, then use FA for DE,... excellent.

if we go with leaning on our current and resigning Williams,.. then using our first 4 picks all on DE/DT or hybrid and DB,.. excellent.

either way,.. I believe the FA used are temporary stop gaps until we can draft the other side. That’s assuming success with the draft picks taken.

also, while Moton and Williams have shown some success— I also think assuming they are some kind of elite duo is also wishful thinking.

i do believe another OT would need to be drafted anyway— a good one. 

[CarolinaNCSU]

7 hours ago, heel31ok said:

OT/LT has and will continue to be a need...

Correct. I said top need.  If we have Moton and Daryl back, no reason to spend our 1st rounder on an OT.  I then said could see us spending a 2nd or 3rd on OL/OT, never said it wouldn't still be a need. 

[Lumps]

Moron to LT is a ? because the coaching staff refuses to give him a shot. I’d bet money he would be better than Kalil or Clark.

So I agree tackle is a need no matter how you look at it and one in the draft would be nice.

A couple points to that though is a LT even in the first round 9 times out of 10 will not come in and make a huge or better impact than Clark or Moton, and secondly a pass rusher or DT in the first is a much better option given the depth of this draft and the fact it’s just as much as a need.

DE/DT/Oline should eat up our first four picks.

[top dawg]

5 hours ago, t96 said:

I don't have the time to go through it, but keep in mind that there are 2-3 times as many DEs playing significant snaps as LTs. And there are still very few total package top tier DEs.

I'll give you that, and it's a good point. It's also a matter of definition. There are probably very few "total package top tier" of anything, much less OTs and even fewer LTs. So, I would say that you're giving support to my argument.

Gross was damned good, but was he really "total package top tier?" But, if we could find a younger version of him, as a serious fan I would be ecstatic.

[Mr. Scot]

15 hours ago, MHS831 said:

If Moton was an admirable LT  (and I am not saying that I disagree with you--I would love to see him there  but find it strange that he did not play there THIS year), answer these 2 questions:

1.   Why could he not beat our Matt Kalil after not beating out Williams?

2. Why did they not move him from RT to the more important and critcal LT when Kalil was injured?  (They could have signed a street free agent to play RT, instead, they went after a free agent who could play LT.  If they had a LT on  the roster---in  their minds== they would have moved him there.) 

Is the same coach that kept Amini Silatolu starting over Andrew Norwell until he got hurt still making the decisions?

Same guy that wanted to keep Curtis Samuel and DJ Moore behind Torrey Smith regardless of the obvious difference in performance?

I think that just might have something to do with it.

[top dawg]

5 hours ago, raleigh-panther said:

Think about this

...the most important position on the team is what.  The QB.   the franchise and that QB is in bad physical shape from beatings past and mismanagement 

—. The second most  important position, and very hard to find, Left OT

—.  Add to it, Williams coming off knee surgery, and contract uncertainty, 

—. Plus a generally miserable depth and skill on this oline  and the answer to the problem is easier to come by

— there is no question that both lines need updating, but whether one believes  it or not, without Newton heathy, or even if a new QB Is drafted in 2020, that line  has to be fixed 

If this team needs to move up and get one in the draft, do it. It’s past time

look at the QBs in the playoffs, what mattered more, that the QB had time or that the QB didn’t have time.  No one touches Brady,  he stands there like a statue, and what is the result, five rings  with a chance for a sixth 

Honestly if I did have a question as to what our biggest need is---the big assumption being that Cam is going to get back to his pre-surgery (throwing) form, and I mean the first surgery---after seeing Cam get crushed, then Heinike get crunched, then Allen get smashed, I don't have any question as to our biggest need (Williams or not). It's past time to bookend (yes, I'm using it as a verb) the line, and I'm still skeptical of Moton on the left, and not even sold of a healthy Williams on the right. But that just may be me. 

[AU-panther]

Not that I don't want to upgrade the O-line but there are people around here that will never be happy with the O-line.  Once Cam takes one sack they start complaining that we must have the worst O-line in the league.

Does anyone know sacks and pressures allowed in each of the 4 years and where that ranks in the league?  Would love to see some context here.

[MHS831]

7 hours ago, Lumps said:

Why is Moton not being tried at LT is my question....and seems to be a better one than why would the team try him at LT considering these facts.

That is my point.  There is nothing that suggests they will play him at LT next year---nobody is saying they won't or shouldn't.  However, they had a golden opportunity this year--twice--and did not.  He should have beaten out Kalil--he did not.  He should have moved there when Kalil got injured--he did not.  Now everyone is saying, "Moton at LT, Williams at RT" Just do not see how that can be assumed, based on the facts.

[Black&BlueBubba]

5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

That is my point.  There is nothing that suggests they will play him at LT next year---nobody is saying they won't or shouldn't.  However, they had a golden opportunity this year--twice--and did not.  He should have beaten out Kalil--he did not.  He should have moved there when Kalil got injured--he did not.  Now everyone is saying, "Moton at LT, Williams at RT" Just do not see how that can be assumed, based on the facts.

So let’s talk facts. When Khalil went down he did start for him at LT against a good Cowboys line. You know Demarcus Lawrence the pro bowler?  Here are the results. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pantherswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/12/taylor-moton-only-allowed-1-pressure-on-cam-newton-in-first-career-start/amp/

To save you the reading he gave up no sacks and only one pressure in 36 pass snaps.  Not too shabby against a good defensive line  

The other fact is that Chris Clark spent most of his career as a LT both with the Broncos and Texans. Although he does have some experience at Both LT and RT with the Broncos.   But his last starting position was LT  

So if you are a coach and have one guy like Moton that has limited to no experience at LT and Clark that has experience at both but mainly at LT recently.  Why in the hell would you put Moton at LT and Clark at RT when their recent experience is the opposite? They are just trying to stop the bleeding at that point.

 If Williams didn’t get hurt again against the Cowboys, that was the plan for this last season. Yes he was going to be the starting LT for the Panthers for the 2018 season. So its not some crazy idea out of left field.  That was the plan.  And based on the FACT that he gave up 1 pressure all game against one of the best DE’s in football I think having  him at LT would be better than anybody in the draft right now. Especially since we have so many other holes  to fill on offense and defense. 

I have no idea what they are planning to do with our OL.  But I would certainly take a Moton LT / Williams RT to start the year. 

 

[The Huddler]

Moton LT

Willams RT

 

 

 

tackle problem solved. go get a top teir DE

[The Huddler]

If we retain Williams, taking an OT in the first is like goimg broke buying a spare tire when you need that money to fix your head lights

[Black&BlueBubba]

1 minute ago, The Huddler said:

If we retain Williams, taking an OT in the first is like goimg broke buying a spare tire when you need that money to fix your head lights

Yeah.  Or like drafting Butler when you have KK. 

[MHS831]

34 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

So let’s talk facts. When Khalil went down he did start for him at LT against a good Cowboys line. You know Demarcus Lawrence the pro bowler?  Here are the results. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pantherswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/12/taylor-moton-only-allowed-1-pressure-on-cam-newton-in-first-career-start/amp/

To save you the reading he gave up no sacks and only one pressure in 36 pass snaps.  Not too shabby against a good defensive line  

The other fact is that Chris Clark spent most of his career as a LT both with the Broncos and Texans. Although he does have some experience at Both LT and RT with the Broncos.   But his last starting position was LT  

So if you are a coach and have one guy like Moton that has limited to no experience at LT and Clark that has experience at both but mainly at LT recently.  Why in the hell would you put Moton at LT and Clark at RT when their recent experience is the opposite? They are just trying to stop the bleeding at that point.

 If Williams didn’t get hurt again against the cowboys that was the plan for this last season. Yes he was going to be the starting LT for the Panthers for the 2018 season. So its not some crazy idea out of left field.  That was the plan.  And based on the FACT that he gave up 1 pressure all game against one of the best DE’s in football I think having  him at LT would be better than anybody in the draft right now. Especially since we have so many other holes  to fill on offense and defense. 

I have no idea what they are planning to do with our OL.  But I would certainly take a Moton LT / Williams RT to start the year. 

 

 My point was they did not play him the rest of the year at LT---it makes no difference how good you think he played that one game---I said this very clearly:  They had the opportunity to keep him at LT and did not.  Now, my point was this--read my posts carefully--they did not play him at LT when they had the chance to play him at LT FOR 15  GAMES--instead, they signed a street free agent to protect Cam's blind side.  That is a fact.  My inference was not that he cannot play LT--what I think--what you think---has nothing to do with it.  There are no signs that they like him at LT or he would have played--wait for it---Left Tackle.

You suggest that your position is based on facts---it is not.  You cherry pick facts from the  first game of the year in emergency duty to support your opinion.  The fact that he played well at LT is opinion, one that I agree with, by the way.  However, the fact that matters is this:  he never played Left Tackle again--and we had a huge need.  That is the only fact that matters---forget his stats--vs. Dallas in Game 1.  The Panthers know those stats too.

[t96]

7 hours ago, top dawg said:

I'll give you that, and it's a good point. It's also a matter of definition. There are probably very few "total package top tier" of anything, much less OTs and even fewer LTs. So, I would say that you're giving support to my argument.

Gross was damned good, but was he really "total package top tier?" But, if we could find a younger version of him, as a serious fan I would be ecstatic.

Maybe LT is a little harder to find but I don't think it's that huge of a difference. I'd say QB is in a tier by itself at the top, then LT and 4-3 DE in a tier together and then other positions.