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Report: Panthers Considering switch to 3-4

TheCasillas

By TheCasillas,
in Carolina Panthers

Does a 3-4 defense excite you?  

133 members have voted

  1. 1. Does a 3-4 defense excite you?

    • Yes
      78
    • No
      54

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

Posted
Posted

I think Fowler Jr can be signed for not too much and if we draft Sweat in the 1st our OLB edge rushers look solid with Luke and Shaq in the middle. Haynes can learn and back up the outside and Carter and Smith can do the same for the middle. KK, Poe and Butler on the defensive line. We would just need a FS either later in the draft or FA signing and our defense should be better... Rounds 2 and 3 can be on offensive line (tackle guard or center)...

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CarolinaXblue Apprentice

CarolinaXblue

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I say yes. Need less d line and our linebackers are a possible strong point on our roster. Shaq and Luke are good coverage guys. Maybe Jermaine Carter could be an edge rusher? DB’s would have to improve though. I think it would benefit Eric Reid as well if they decide to resign him since he’s so good in run support.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

Posted
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1 hour ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

I will side with Wade Phillip’s on this one. 

Elite 3-4 OLBs may have been cheaper than elite 4-3 DEs back in the day, but the highest paid defensive player in the NFL is a 3-4 OLB (Khalil Mack). The 2nd highest paid is also a 3-4 OLB (Von Miller). You have to get down to #8 to find a 4-3 DE who isn't playing under the franchise tag. Just a fun little fact... Kawann Short is #9.

Now granted, that's going to change when Demarcus Lawrence signs.

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Sub Zero Rising Star

Sub Zero

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Okay ppl if you want to play the match up game who fits a 3/4 defense on our roster thing..

Please go look at other 3/4 teams and match up the players in their position to the players on our roster you think can play that position.. 

Let me make this simple..

3/4 front 7 position..

ILB avg. Size  6'2 250lb able to take on pulling guards..

OLB avg. Size 6'3 and up 245lb and up pass rushers also able to cover TE's and RB's in pass coverage..

NT avg. 6'3 and up 335lb + and more able to take on double and triple teams and hold their ground..They are the Most important to stopping the run in a 3/4.. 

DE avg. 6'4 and up 300lb + taking and beating double teams rushing the passer no need to be superfast or quick but definitely very strong...

 

 

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Sub Zero Rising Star

Sub Zero

Posted
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35 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I think Fowler Jr can be signed for not too much and if we draft Sweat in the 1st our OLB edge rushers look solid with Luke and Shaq in the middle. Haynes can learn and back up the outside and Carter and Smith can do the same for the middle. KK, Poe and Butler on the defensive line. We would just need a FS either later in the draft or FA signing and our defense should be better... Rounds 2 and 3 can be on offensive line (tackle guard or center)...

You still need another Olb, a backup NT,  2 more DE's to backup Kk and (Hopefully replace butler) and another ILB .. You have no depth with your list..

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DaveThePanther2008 Grand Master

DaveThePanther2008

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Posted
12 hours ago, SetfreexX said:

The defense doesn't matter the personnel does...as well as the coordinator putting guys in position. 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2018&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-p=1&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG

Best defenses in points allowed per game is a mix of 3-4 and 4-3 teams. The main thing trending is there are more tweener OLB / DE's coming out of college, same deal for the OLB/S hybrids. Finding traditional 4-3 defensive ends is harder based on the spread looks in college, defenses are electing for more speed and athleticism upfront. 

We DO NOT have any 3-4 pieces on our roster at the LB position specifically the pass rushing - Luke, Shaq , Carter, Smith etc are all 4-3 LBs. 

None of our current defensive ends would transition well either, Addison can't cover, Peppers if he returns is not at his best in coverage at this point, Haynes has the tools as a speed rusher off the edge, but can't hold the  point of attack based on his size. And if you're considering Obada or Horton it makes no sense. 

It would require an overhaul to make it happen, You could maybe have the front three with Poe at the NT, and KK, and Butler at the DE positions. We'd have to play Shaq, and Luke inside at MLB, and we'd need two 3-4 OLB's. Haynes is a specialist at this point, and like I mentioned I can't see Addision or Peppers at this stage as 3-4 OLB's. 

If we're going to maximize the guys under contract we need to add pieces that fit the defense we run currently, trying to switch to a 3-4 would likely take at least two off-seasons, and I don't think the leash is longer than this year. 

Nice Post.....

You really have to have the pieces in place and like another poster said.  Switching would make 2019 a rough season for us.  A lot of people missing assignments just because they aren't familiar with the defense.

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Woodie Newbie

Woodie

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sub Zero said:

Okay ppl if you want to play the match up game who fits a 3/4 defense on our roster thing..

Please go look at other 3/4 teams and match up the players in their position to the players on our roster you think can play that position.. 

Let me make this simple..

3/4 front 7 position..

ILB avg. Size  6'2 250lb able to take on pulling guards..

OLB avg. Size 6'3 and up 245lb and up pass rushers also able to cover TE's and RB's in pass coverage..

NT avg. 6'3 and up 335lb + and more able to take on double and triple teams and hold their ground..They are the Most important to stopping the run in a 3/4.. 

DE avg. 6'4 and up 300lb + taking and beating double teams rushing the passer no need to be superfast or quick but definitely very strong...

 

 

Typically, 3-4 teams have one ILB that is about 245-255, and a smaller one that ranges from 225-240.  The larger ILB fits your description of being able to take on the blocks, but the smaller one's responsibility is to make plays and clean up what is there.  That would be an ideal fit for Luke.  The larger ILB is where we could have an issue, but you are seeing teams start to get away from that mold.  The Bears and Rams, for instance have both ILB's that are under 240 lbs.  Heck, even the 49ers had Bowman and Willis back in the day, and both were right around 240.  So, there are definitely adaptations of the 3-4 that can utilize two smallish ILB's.  

So, Luke could definitely play ILB in a 3-4, but I'm not sure Shaq would be ideal opposite him.  He would be solid in a role similar to Luke's, but Luke would already be there, and I can't see Shaq consistently taking on the guards.  Maybe if they create a scheme such as the Rams and Bears are using, but I haven't paid enough attention to them to say how different it is from a more traditional 3-4.  I'm guessing they put more emphasis on speed and using the front to occupy blockers, but can't say for certain.

As for OLB, this would obviously be an area that we need to find players.  I disagree with you about Addison.  His game is predicated on speed and quickness around the edges, and IMO, that would translate to OLB in a 3-4.  While he is about 260 lbs., he would likely need to drop 10 pounds or so to really work out there, but that shouldn't be a big deal for him.  And I wouldn't look for him to drop into coverage very often if we go to a 3-4.  His primary role would be as a rush linebacker whose job is to try and get to the QB.  Regardless, I would only see him as a stopgap for a year or so so we could find his replacement.

The opposite OLB spot is where we would definitely need to bring in somebody.   If we were willing to spend in FA, Anthony Barr might be a great option.  I really think he'd thrive in a 3-4.  That would also allow us to take an OLB such as Sweat in the draft to get our pass rusher of the future, and maybe relegate Addison to being a backup and situational rusher.  But, of course, we'd still need to find a DE that can play opposite KK.

And I don't know where you got your averages, but they a bit high.  The average NT is between 310-320, with the biggest around 325.  And the average DE in a 3-4 is in the 280's, with just a handful barely hitting 300.  In fact if we did go 3-4, we'd pretty much be the high end of the weight scale.  Poe is in the 340's, but is best suited as a 3-4 NT (has played his best in that alignment in the past), KK is about 315, and might actually need to drop some weight.  Butler is around 330, and could probably maintain his weight and backup Poe, or lose a few pounds to compete for DE (although I think we'd bring someone in from the outside to play opposite KK).  

 

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DaveThePanther2008 Grand Master

DaveThePanther2008

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Posted
18 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

our entire front 7 needs a overhaul besides Luke and possibly shaq

 

 

our DL is old. if we change it needs to be now

 

we need new players on the DL anyway

Do we go and find a super mollie for NT.   Short move outside?

My only issue with 3-4 is it would be a new scheme and everyone would have to learn new roles and be proficient in one off season.

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