Report: Panthers Considering switch to 3-4

[Sub Zero]

1 minute ago, Growl said:

what you insinuated was that Wade Phillip, who you didn't know anything about, had some bias 

 

why don't you do it then. If these coaches are everywhere, rabidly clamoring and paying for rare talents, as you say they are, then find some commentary on the economic benefits of the 43. You've said numerous times it would be easy to find.

No I insinuated that you trying to make a point by saying "well this coach thinks it's the best" was dumb...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloggingtheboys.com/platform/amp/2014/7/11/5888599/lovie-smith-4-3-defense-dallas-cowboys-tampa-bay-buccaneers

Lovie Smith talking about the 43.. Now what??

[SixMileDrive]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Nice point---did we already start it last year?  (Haynes, for example).

 

I'm wondering about this. Remember last year where Luke made such a big deal about becoming a better rusher? What skill set does a 3-4 ILB need that Luke didn't have? Rushing the passer. Shaq's already a terrific rusher, though he's probably a tad bit light at the moment. I'm curious if this transition isn't already a year in.

[SixMileDrive]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not sure it's "easier" to find players for either scheme. I think it's easier to find edge rushers for a 3-4 scheme, but 3-4 NTs are a tough one to find. You gotta be a bad mother to hold down the nose in a 3-4. Ironically, we probably let a guy walk last year who could do it.

Poe's best years were at 3-4 nose. He's out of position in a 4-3.

[Sub Zero]

5 minutes ago, SixMileDrive said:

I'm wondering about this. Remember last year where Luke made such a big deal about becoming a better rusher? What skill set does a 3-4 ILB need that Luke didn't have? Rushing the passer. Shaq's already a terrific rusher, though he's probably a tad bit light at the moment. I'm curious if this transition isn't already a year in.

Luke is fine .. He is a better fit for the 43 but he has the size and skillsets to be a 3/4 Ilb..

My problem is we need 2 DE still, 3 Olb and a backup NT to make this happen.. Not to mention we still need secondary help as well.. That's alot of money we don't have and probably most of our draft.. We still have other holes..

[MHS831]

Here is the logic behind a switch to a 3-4:

• If Cam sits out a year, this would be the year to do it.
• We told TD to clean out his locker before offering a legend a deal (the  way I understand it).
• We have a lot of turnover and can clean house and get a lot of cap room.  There may not be a better time.

This is not to say I would do it--or want to do  it.

 
 

[Sub Zero]

Oh @Growl the economic benefits are.. We are pretty much built to be a 43 defense.. And like Scot said early in this thread.. All we really need to do to improve our defense is get younger at DE and add some secondary pieces.. 

Sign A younger FA DE, a FS and Nickle CB..Resign Reid then draft a DE early in the draft.. 

How much do you think it will cost to signed more players for a 3/4?

[SixMileDrive]

21 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Do we have the FA money to make this type of move??

We don't have a #1 4-3 DE. I think this saves us money. This year is loaded with 3-4 talent in the draft and we won't get #1 4-3 DE at our draft position.

As far as our team:

• Poe is a natural NT.
• KK has switched outside and played DE a ton for us. Hybrid DT/DE makes a great 3-4 DE.
• Addison is an undersized 4-3 DE, so he's got a solid chance to excel at 3-4 OLB. 
• Luke spent all of last year focusing on rushing the passer
• Shaq is already a terrific rusher and there are far more light 3-4 ILBs than you are claiming. 
• Pepper played 3-4 OLB for years at an extremely high level
• Everyone was shocked that Haynes was drafted by a 4-3 team. Natural 3-4 OLB.

We're missing a starting 3-4 DE at this point.  The cost, however, of reloading our 4-3 front is going to be staggering. Our front four can't generate pressure which is why we've blitzed so much the past two years. I'm not saying this happens, but it's far from outlandish.

[Sub Zero]

26 minutes ago, SixMileDrive said:

We don't have a #1 4-3 DE. I think this saves us money. This year is loaded with 3-4 talent in the draft and we won't get #1 4-3 DE at our draft position.

As far as our team:

• Poe is a natural NT.
• KK has switched outside and played DE a ton for us. Hybrid DT/DE makes a great 3-4 DE.
• Addison is an undersized 4-3 DE, so he's got a solid chance to excel at 3-4 OLB. 
• Luke spent all of last year focusing on rushing the passer
• Shaq is already a terrific rusher and there are far more light 3-4 ILBs than you are claiming. 
• Pepper played 3-4 OLB for years at an extremely high level
• Everyone was shocked that Haynes was drafted by a 4-3 team. Natural 3-4 OLB.

We're missing a starting 3-4 DE at this point.  The cost, however, of reloading our 4-3 front is going to be staggering. Our front four can't generate pressure which is why we've blitzed so much the past two years. I'm not saying this happens, but it's far from outlandish.

Alright let's break this down..

1. Check FA this is a great year to sign 4/3 DE.. Plus the draft is literally the best in years for DE and DT.. There are alot of 1st 2nd and 3rd round quality 43 DE's in this draft..  Adding a DE to play with Addison and drafting one will be easier this year than most..

2. I agree with Poe, Luke and maybe KK.. After that everybody else is really a square peg in a round hole.. 

Addison isn't a olb he can't cover or back peddle against anybody.. He has spent the last 8 years bulking up to be a every down DE.. Now he is 31 he is past the point of making that body change or mindset.. He would need to be cut..

Shaq is smallish for a 3/4 ILB.. And already lacks the physicality to take on OG play after after play..

I don't even know why you would sign Pep to be a starter anymore especially since he wasn't as affective in a part time role at a easier position?smh

Hayes has never played in a 3/4 so I hope you're not expecting him to start? He is starting over learning a whole new job.. So he is no better than a rookie again..

3. Conservatively we are missing 2 to 3 DE's 3 OLB 1 NT (backup) and 1 to 2 ILB to run this defense..

4. Addison, Butler, Shaq, Cox and Andre Smith should be let go.. Obada, Cater jr. and Hayes need to gain weight .. And we still might not have enough money and draft picks to get what we need.. And we are definitely not fielding a competitive defense..

 

[Black&BlueBubba]

2 hours ago, Growl said:

What is the dumb argument you're even trying to make?

That the 34 isn't a viable NFL defense? Because lol.

The steelers have consistently acquired the best 34 lb in a class despite picking in the teens or later.

Conversely,  it was no more than a month ago that the panthers were looking at the 8th pick in the draft and nobody dared mention the best 43 end prospect for fear of ridicule.

As it so happens, the man who destroyed the #1 offense in the league with that non viable 34 agrees with me.

 

"According to NFL coach Wade Phillips, 3–4 linebackers "are a little bit cheaper, and you can find more of them," while "it's harder to find defensive linemen to play a 4–3 and pay for all of them."[14]"

I will side with Wade Phillip’s on this one. 

[AU-panther]

6 hours ago, Growl said:

There's really no more distance o cover building a 34 than there is rebuilding our 43.

The only people who think there is are people concerning themselves with players they shouldn't 

'"I just don't think Mario Addison is a good fit for a 34"

 

lol oh no not Mario addison

Ignoring the secondary, what spots in the front seven would you say we need to rebuild if we stay 4-3?

What spots if we switch to 3-4?

[Black&BlueBubba]

11 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Alright let's break this down..

1. Check FA this is a great year to sign 4/3 DE.. Plus the draft is literally the best in years for DE and DT.. There are alot of 1st 2nd and 3rd round quality 43 DE's in this draft..  Adding a DE to play with Addison and drafting one will be easier this year than most..

 

 

Could you name who exactly are you talking about as Quality 4-3 DE’s in this draft?  

I see a couple good ones out of our range in the first. 

Who do you see in the other rounds?

[JARROD]

Only an inflexible coach would say something like that.

coaches like Wade Phillips float back and forth between different fronts and looks constantly.

thats the way you have to confuse the modern offenses.

saying I do 4-3 or 3-4, just means inflexible— square thinking,.. 

omg

[Moo Daeng]

8 hours ago, KillerKat said:

Not with Kuechly here. After him, then yes. 3-4 with Kuechly may mean we have to say goodbye.

Luke would be perfectly suited for a MLB in a 3-4. It's the other LB positions and DL that post the problem. That;s the one person that would translate nearly perfectly.

[Sub Zero]

28 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

Could you name who exactly are you talking about as Quality 4-3 DE’s in this draft?  

I see a couple good ones out of our range in the first. 

Who do you see in the other rounds?

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019DE.php

Free Agent DE

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/defensive-end/