Report: Panthers Considering switch to 3-4

[Sub Zero]

17 minutes ago, Growl said:

I'm talking about a higher form of discussion than you've given

You're actually trying to debate which "system" is better. 

No system is ever better. The talent on the field is the real measure of success, and any maneuver that makes acquisition and retention of talent easier/less competitive, is something worth pursuing.

You're the one who posted the Wade Phillip's article not me..

You're the on who 1st talked about how easy it is to find players to play the 3/4 scheme..

Pretty much I just been proven your statements wrong..

I agree it's all about the personal and right now we don't "really" have the personal .. So how is that a financial benefit?? 

And your last sentence is wrong because no matter which scheme you play you still have to acquire the right players and pay them.. There are bad defenses in both schemes.. Its hard to find a Von Miller,  Kalih Mack  just as it's hard to find a DeMarcus Lawrence, Cam Jordan and you still pay for those type of talents..

So while you're looking for that "higher form"of conversation you might want to check the mirror and see if you're really providing that??

Wow what a prick...

[Growl]

6 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

You're the one who posted the Wade Phillip's article not me..

You're the on who 1st talked about how easy it is to find players to play the 3/4 scheme..

Pretty much I just been proven your statements wrong..

I agree it's all about the personal and right now we don't "really" have the personal .. So how is that a financial benefit?? 

And your last sentence is wrong because no matter which scheme you play you still have to acquire the right players and pay them.. 

you still don't even understand what the discussion is about, how can you be "just been proven my statements wrong."

this is the simple law of supply and demand at the NFL level we're (I'm) discussing. Less bidders equates to better value buys.

[OneBadCat]

I think some 3-4 packages would be a good change up for the team but I'm not sure they can pull off a full conversion in an offseason. 

[Sub Zero]

3 minutes ago, Growl said:

you still don't even understand what the discussion is about, how can you be "just been proven my statements wrong."

this is the simple law of supply and demand at the NFL level were (me) discussing. Less bidders equates to more better value buys.

Dude 13 teams are running a 3/4 base and that doesn't include the Pat's  and Seattle who run a hybrid of both.. Not to mention some teams draft tweeners and smaller DE types and play 43 wide 9 because oline play sucks and the pass is taking more importantance than the run..

So reality check the talent pool is still the same no matter what defense you run..

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, Growl said:

quite frankly it appears the NFC south has figured out Ron Rivera's defense and change for the sake of change might be a great idea, but that's hardly my point

It isn't just this offseason. 

Imagine being able to get guys like tj watt at 30th overall instead of sitting helplessly as the equivocable 43 prospect goes #2 overall every draft/having to trade away multiple 1st rounders to move up and take January Jumpers from UTEP in the top half of the 1st round

Von Miller went #2 overall. Chandler Jones is the highest paid non-franchise tagged DE in the league and he went #21. Demarcus Lawrence will be the new highest paid 4-3 DE as soon as he signs and he went in the 2nd round at #34.

This idea that elite 3-4 pass rushers grow on trees and elite 4-3 pass rushers can only be found in the top five of the draft simply isn't rooted in reality.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, mc52beast said:

Can’t believe Ron would be switching to a 3-4 during a season in which his job is on the line. 

Can see him switching up but not going straight 3-4

Well to be fair, opposing offenses pretty much had his 4-3 scheme figured out, especially our division rivals.

Will this make a difference? I don't really know. If I'm being honest, I think it kind of reeks of desperation.

But we'll see...

 

[Growl]

11 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Von Miller went #2 overall. Chandler Jones is the highest paid non-franchise tagged DE in the league and he went #21. Demarcus Lawrence will be the new highest paid 4-3 DE as soon as he signs and he went in the 2nd round at #34.

This idea that elite 3-4 pass rushers grow on trees and elite 4-3 pass rushers can only be found in the top five of the draft simply isn't roeality.

you're cherry picking, and I'll defer back to wade Phillips commentary as counter

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, Growl said:

you're cherry picking, and I'll defer back to wade Phillips commentary as counter

And you didn't cherry pick with TJ Watt?

I respect the hell out of Wade Phillips as a defensive coach, but he's never been a GM and modern contracts pretty clearly illustrate that his opinion on the matter may no longer be relevant.

[Growl]

54 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Dude 13 teams are running a 3/4 base and that doesn't include the Pat's  and Seattle who run a hybrid of both.. Not to mention some teams draft tweeners and smaller DE types and play 43 wide 9 because oline play sucks and the pass is taking more importantance than the run..

So reality check the talent pool is still the same no matter what defense you run..

the hilarious irony of you even saying this aside, it's an incredibly superficial overview, neglecting scheme variation, within the 34, individual positional importance, team preferences in comparison to the simple truth that 43 teams don't pass on blue chip DEs regardless of situation, and etc etc.

You can't just subtract, though don't think I didn't notice you try to downplay the numerical discrepancy.

[LinvilleGorge]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Well to be fair, opposing offenses pretty much had his 4-3 scheme figured out, especially our division rivals.

Will this make a difference? I don't really know. If I'm being honest, I think it kind of reeks of desperation.

But we'll see...

 

Yep. The Saints and Falcons have been having a field day against Ron's defense ever since we went to the Super Bowl. And before anyone mentions it, beating a Saints team in Week 17 that treated the game like a glorified preseason game means nothing.

[Sub Zero]

14 minutes ago, Growl said:

the hilarious irony of you even saying this aside, it's an incredibly superficial overview, neglecting scheme variation, within the 34, individual positional importance, team preferences in comparison to the simple truth that 43 teams don't pass on blue chip DEs regardless of situation, and etc etc.

You can't just subtract, though don't think I didn't notice you try to downplay the numerical discrepancy.

You figure out the numerical discrepancy and let me know how big of a difference that is?? Smh 

At some point dude you're just arguing just to argue.. 

Lets just end it with a agree to disagree and move on..

[Sub Zero]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yep. The Saints and Falcons have been having a field day against Ron's defense ever since we went to the Super Bowl. And before anyone mentions it, beating a Saints team in Week 17 that treated the game like a glorified preseason game means nothing.

The 1st saints game was 12 to 9 thoe..

I agree somewhat but could it be the personal over figuring Rivera out.. 

Our Secondary has been trash for a few years now..

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Sub Zero said:

The 1st saints game was 12 to 9 thoe..

I agree somewhat but could it be the personal over figuring Rivera out.. 

Our Secondary has been trash for a few years now..

Our secondary will likely always be subpar under Ron. Ron builds his defense around the front seven and relies heavily on a dominant pass rush. When we have one of the top pass rushes in the NFL, we'll have a very good defense. When we don't, well... we'll have what we had this season.

[Roebling]

On 1/22/2019 at 12:54 PM, SetfreexX said:

The defense doesn't matter the personnel does...as well as the coordinator putting guys in position. 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2018&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-p=1&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG

Best defenses in points allowed per game is a mix of 3-4 and 4-3 teams. The main thing trending is there are more tweener OLB / DE's coming out of college, same deal for the OLB/S hybrids. Finding traditional 4-3 defensive ends is harder based on the spread looks in college, defenses are electing for more speed and athleticism upfront. 

We DO NOT have any 3-4 pieces on our roster at the LB position specifically the pass rushing - Luke, Shaq , Carter, Smith etc are all 4-3 LBs. 

None of our current defensive ends would transition well either, Addison can't cover, Peppers if he returns is not at his best in coverage at this point, Haynes has the tools as a speed rusher off the edge, but can't hold the  point of attack based on his size. And if you're considering Obada or Horton it makes no sense. 

 It would require an overhaul to make it happen, You could maybe have the front three with Poe at the NT, and KK, and Butler at the DE positions. We'd have to play Shaq, and Luke inside at MLB, and we'd need two 3-4 OLB's. Haynes is a specialist at this point, and like I mentioned I can't see Addision or Peppers at this stage as 3-4 OLB's. 

If we're going to maximize the guys under contract we need to add pieces that fit the defense we run currently, trying to switch to a 3-4 would likely take at least two off-seasons, and I don't think the leash is longer than this year. 

I hardly get on this forum because so much is just knee jerk poo... But this was a great rundown.