Do we need a CB?

[JARROD]

Yes,...

that is all

[panthers55]

16 hours ago, ChibCU said:

This makes little sense. We brought extra pressure because our D-Line has been unable to generate pressure without help. Great D-Lines cause havoc on their own from time to time.

Defense works together. Even casual fans know that a great d line can't create havoc if the quarterback has five people open within 1 or 2 seconds of the snap. Playing 10 yards off the line in zone on third and short is a great recipe for futility and a major reason we got little pressure.

[musicman]

Bradberry and Cockrell on the outside, Jackson on the slot. He can keep up with the shifty guys and even help in tackles on the line and blitz with that speed. Just need good depth. They should not pick a CB in the 1st 3 rounds unless some amazing guy falls way down.

[ChibCU]

52 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Defense works together. Even casual fans know that a great d line can't create havoc if the quarterback has five people open within 1 or 2 seconds of the snap. Playing 10 yards off the line in zone on third and short is a great recipe for futility and a major reason we got little pressure.

And DBs can't play closer to the line when they know the opposing QB will have all day to throw.

[panthers55]

Just now, ChibCU said:

And DBs can't play closer to the line when they know the opposing QB will have all day to throw.

Actually they can. Man pressure and hitting receivers off the line disrupts rhythm passes and makes the QB hold the ball giving the DLine time to get coverage sacks.

[Car123]

7 minutes ago, musicman said:

Bradberry and Cockrell on the outside, Jackson on the slot. He can keep up with the shifty guys and even help in tackles on the line and blitz with that speed. Just need good depth. They should not pick a CB in the 1st 3 rounds unless some amazing guy falls way down.

Why limit Jackson to the slot? He was one of the best rookie CB's. We should let him build on last season to become something similar to Chris Harris Jr.

[ChibCU]

12 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Actually they can. Man pressure and hitting receivers off the line disrupts rhythm passes and makes the QB hold the ball giving the DLine time to get coverage sacks.

You consider go and post routes the rhythm passes? I would think more so curls and slants.

Also, there are many receivers out there that will make you pay for trying to get physical at the line. Shed the DB and then easily burn by.

[SCMunnerlyn1]

Id like to see captain transition some into the back 2 because he's always been a solid tackler and blitzer. He's been getting abused on quick stuff lately.   

[panthers55]

52 minutes ago, ChibCU said:

You consider go and post routes the rhythm passes? I would think more so curls and slants.

Also, there are many receivers out there that will make you pay for trying to get physical at the line. Shed the DB and then easily burn by.

No. The double move blunders come from poor technique and poor communication. That was more on the safety. Rhythm passes are your out routes and quick slants. Something you can't defend 10 yards back playing cover 3.  If there are receivers who can shred you playing physical man, exactly how is a passive zone going to be better as he finds the gaping holes and slices down the sideline on a deep route. That makes no sense either. If you can't play physical man because the receivers are bigger and more physical, you got the wrong corners. That is why Jackson needs to move to the slot and we need a veteran free agent to compete with Cockrell on the outside. 

[ChibCU]

30 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

No. The double move blunders come from poor technique and poor communication. That was more on the safety. Rhythm passes are your out routes and quick slants. Something you can't defend 10 yards back playing cover 3.  If there are receivers who can shred you playing physical man, exactly how is a passive zone going to be better as he finds the gaping holes and slices down the sideline on a deep route. That makes no sense either. If you can't play physical man because the receivers are bigger and more physical, you got the wrong corners. That is why Jackson needs to move to the slot and we need a veteran free agent to compete with Cockrell on the outside. 

That opinion is fine. I'm just saying that playing off is a consequence of our DBs having to make sure we don't get burnt deep, due to opposing QBs not having pressure from our D-Line. We also don't have good coverage safeties to clean up on the back end.

[AU-panther]

20 hours ago, ncsfinest21 said:

CBs are only as good as the pass rush. We need DEs that are proven. With the new DBs coach I think we are fine except at FS. Adams is too old. I think Reid is good enough to see how he pans out next year witha full off season and training camp. But our secondary I think is good. Just both sides of the ball on the line needs to be addressed.

Works both ways.  Pass rush is only as good as your CBs.

Look at the tweet above, KC led the league in sacks.  How much was Brady pressured?

Answer this; How long does the average sack take?  How quick can Brady get a pass off?

If every team was running 7 step drops on every play it would be different but that isn't the way the league is going.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for drafting some D-lineman this year, but in today's NFL you better be able to cover to give you D-line a chance to get to the QB. Teams have got really proficient at the quick passing attack.

 

[musicman]

 

3 hours ago, Car123 said:

Why limit Jackson to the slot? He was one of the best rookie CB's. We should let him build on last season to become something similar to Chris Harris Jr.

He gets burned on the double moves and thinks he can make up for it with his speed every time. Sometimes he can. But that quickness to follow those shifty speedy slot receivers would be great to counter what they do best. And with his speed, picture blitzing from the slot spot. He'd be there in 2 seconds. 

[Woodie]

1 hour ago, ChibCU said:

That opinion is fine. I'm just saying that playing off is a consequence of our DBs having to make sure we don't get burnt deep, due to opposing QBs not having pressure from our D-Line. We also don't have good coverage safeties to clean up on the back end.

I think a rangy free safety with good ball skills would do wonders for our defense.  I agree that a big reason our corners play so far back is that they are protecting against getting beat deep.  The team puts a premium on keeping everything in front of you and not giving up big plays.  Unfortunately, that has bitten us too often, especially on 3rd down.

And I agree with P55 that getting physical with receivers at the line would disrupt rhythm offenses (I'm looking at you New Orleans).  And if you look at the times we get consistently burned in the passing game, it's usually with rhythm passes that we basically hand them because we're playing so far off the receivers.  I hate to see us play back so much because I think press coverage is actually one of Bradberry's strengths, and we rarely take advantage of it.

Bottom line, we need to find a way to generate pressure on the QB without having to rely on blitzes from our LB's and DB's.  That would go a long way to limiting opponents ability to let long plays develop, but it would also allow us to keep more defenders in the middle of the field to help disrupt the play.  But we also need much better safety play on the back end.  After all, you're never able to completely shut down a good QB, so you need someone back there that can make a play.  And for God's sake, we need to stop playing so far off the receivers on 3rd and short...or even 3rd and intermediate.

[CBDellinger]

Y’all can argue DB vs DL till the cows come home but the real answer is in the money.  Who gets paid most on the defensive side of the ball?  

After you you look at this list it’s pretty clear what’s valued more.