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FA center that would immediately upgrade our line...


WarPanthers89

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1 minute ago, stbugs said:

Dead money doesn’t matter. He’s a backup at best and cutting him still saves net cap space ($13m+ over the next two years) over him sitting on the bench. Also, just as important for new signings, it would free up bonus cash that you wouldn’t have to pay him for doing nothing. 

Yep.  It doesn't make any sense to keep him around.  

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15 minutes ago, Raleigh PF said:

Would like to see Ryan Kalil brought in as a coach, if the Panthers did end up selecting a Center in the draft. His knowledge and experience is what the Panthers will miss most.

We on the Huddle seem to have a thing for wanting all our old players to come back as coaches, or to be resigned cause they'll basically be 'player coaches' and were always talking about needing savy old vets come in to teach our young players.  Not neccessarilly knocking it, but I think we may put too much stock in the idea.  The coaches need to take that role.

I do agree, Ryan Kalil's knowledge and experience will be missed.  Just don't know that I see him as a coach.  Plus I know he has other after football plans.

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1 hour ago, Woodie said:

I don't think there's any question he's gone.  

 That’s the problem. It is a question. One of the few issues that there is consensus on the huddle is that folk want to keep Williams and get rid of Kalil. But neither is close to assured.

 For those who talk of easily fixing the OL with 3 or 4 high draft picks exclusively devoted to OL, when was the last time that happened? Who are these great OL and why aren’t other far needier teams than us drafting them?

 Larsen, Van Roten, Clark, Newhouse. None of these guys are optimal players but they don’t get the credit they deserve as UDFAs and mid season FAs off the street. They did a good job considering and represent great value. We can’t be fantastic across the board and there are plenty of needs going into this offseason.

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Just now, Seoul_Panther said:

 That’s the problem. It is a question. One of the few issues that there is consensus on the huddle is that folk want to keep Williams and get rid of Kalil. But neither is close to assured. There is an element of us projecting it because it’s what we want.

 For those who talk of easily fixing the OL with 3 or 4 high draft picks exclusively devoted to OL, when was the last time that happened? Who are these great OL and why aren’t other far needier teams than us drafting them?

 Larsen, Van Roten, Clark, Newhouse. None of these guys are optimal players but they don’t get the credit they deserve as UDFAs and mid season FAs off the street. They did a good job considering and represent great value. We can’t be fantastic across the board and there are plenty of needs going into this offseason.

 

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1 hour ago, Seoul_Panther said:

 That’s the problem. It is a question. One of the few issues that there is consensus on the huddle is that folk want to keep Williams and get rid of Kalil. But neither is close to assured.

 For those who talk of easily fixing the OL with 3 or 4 high draft picks exclusively devoted to OL, when was the last time that happened? Who are these great OL and why aren’t other far needier teams than us drafting them?

 Larsen, Van Roten, Clark, Newhouse. None of these guys are optimal players but they don’t get the credit they deserve as UDFAs and mid season FAs off the street. They did a good job considering and represent great value. We can’t be fantastic across the board and there are plenty of needs going into this offseason.

There's no certainty to anything until it happens.  But I think it is very likely that we cut Kalil with a June 1st designation, and then use the cap savings on the OL.  While it's no guarantee, I think there is a very good chance we resign Williams, assuming he will be back to 100%.  But if not, then OT becomes priority 1 or 1a. 

And, I agree, trying to fix the OL exclusively through the draft is a clear path to failure.  We need at least one, and likely two, FA additions, whether that's Williams and/or someone else, then add another in the draft. 

The way I see it, we have three immediate holes on the OL: OT, LG, C.  ideally, two will come from FA and one from the draft.  The OT depends on whether or not we re-sign Williams.  If we do, then OT is taken care of, but if not, then we will probably have to look at the draft, and we could take the highest rated tackle at #16 and let Moton play whichever one the Rookie can't.  If we re-sign Williams, then we will hopefully sign a capable G or C in FA and draft the other.  Now, that's ideal, but only time will tell just how realistic it is to accomplish.

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16 hours ago, stbugs said:

You only get to select 7 guys. We are going to miss out on a lot of guys we like. That’s no excuse for wasting value and reaching. Taking a 2nd round guy at 16 is what gets you fired as a GM and also gets you a crappy draft class. Taking a second round guy increases the chance of a bust. Just not a smart move. We don’t need a center so bad that we botch the whole draft. 

Nah, you're wrong on this one.

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5 hours ago, stbugs said:

Lol. Start a poll and see if taking a second round graded center at 16 is a smart move. How about taking a guy ranked top 10 that falls like Derwin James and then using the comp pick to trade up from 47 and make sure your second round center? Reaching that much is never a smart move and by reaching I’m not talking about taking a guy ranked 20th that you really like at 16, but a guy who will be there in the 2nd at 16. Trade down, trade up, don’t waste the 16th pick on a small upgrade to Larsen when there are decent FA centers and you have way bigger holes with no one in place.

Nah. Get the man you need. 31 other teams have a shot at him before you get a second chance.

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5 hours ago, stbugs said:

Agreed. I thought last year fit perfectly with losing Norwell and Kalil leaving after this year since pre-draft it was talked about how deep interior OL was in the draft and how we had the extra 3rd and would even have another 3rd this year with Norwell. We drafted 0 OL but invited and traded for every schlub we could find. I liked Moore, Donte and Thomas (really liked him pre-draft but also liked Kittle and others the year before). I didn’t get the no OL at all and taking projects instead.

This year looks good again interior wise but we sort of backed ourselves in a corner and will probably miss out on DL because we ignored OL last year.

Totally agree.  I was a bit shocked that we didn't grab a center or guard last year.

Seems like we are drafting a year behind a lot of the time.  We need to get lucky and have a draft like the Saints did in 2017 (4 quality starters).  That is probably why I'm not a huge fan of trading up early this year.  I like having those 4 picks in the top 100.

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2 hours ago, stbugs said:

We’ve gotten some really good players in the last two drafts but then pulled some question marks to avoid having amazing drafts or in Butker’s case wasted a bunch of cap we could have used.

If we had just gone for solid college players that fell we could have avoided Hall, Haynes and Gaulden and picked up Harrison, Jackson, Lawson, Hurst and/or Crosby. The fact that safety is an issue or tackle depth is our own fault. We easily could have had back to back mega drafts. I’m still happy with Moton, CMC, Samuel, Moore, Donte and Thomas, but damn those three reaches were unnecessary and not what a contender needed in rounds 3-4 versus immediate depth/maybe starters. 

I can live with the past 2 drafts.  If Jackson, Thomas, and Moore turn out to be quality starters along with Moton, Samuel, and Moore that is pretty good.  That would be 3 in each draft. 

Don't get me wrong, I also thought some of the later picks were a bit of a reach in 2018 and 2019 but overall if you get 3 starters you should be happy.  4 and you are ecstatic.

2016 on the other hand is hurting us.  If we would have got 3 quality starters there that would be two less spots we are looking this year.  Maybe I'm being over optimistic but I think this draft could line up pretty well for us.  2 of our needs (C and G) are positions that you can often find a little later in the draft.  DT is a need that is deep this year.  I feel pretty good about finding those 3 positions if we are smart.  The key is going to be filling a 4th or 5th need.  That is what we really need.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, stbugs said:

Yeah, 2016 hurt. Glad we at least got Bradberry. Honestly, there are some good players from 2016, but that draft was overall a crappy draft. Look at picks 10-31 (NE lost their first). I counted 15 hard busts out of the last 22 in the first round. We talk about Michael Thomas as a great pick, but in the first you had Coleman, Doctson, Fuller and Treadwell at WR. All crap. Butler was a bad pick, but he wasn’t alone. After the top 10, that draft was bad overall. It’s amazing to look back and see the crap  

We definitely need 4 good picks this year. We were so close the last two years. 2017 especially. CMC, Samuel and Moton is an amazing haul. Thomas, Moore and Donte is great, but not quite up to that level. We just need to keep drafting like the last two and god willing get the 4th or 5th contributor. 

Very true. We are in a good position this year with the two third round draft picks that we have to get four solid players....we are going to need every one to step up with as many holes as we have to fill. 

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2 hours ago, stbugs said:

Yeah, 2016 hurt. Glad we at least got Bradberry. Honestly, there are some good players from 2016, but that draft was overall a crappy draft. Look at picks 10-31 (NE lost their first). I counted 15 hard busts out of the last 22 in the first round. We talk about Michael Thomas as a great pick, but in the first you had Coleman, Doctson, Fuller and Treadwell at WR. All crap. Butler was a bad pick, but he wasn’t alone. After the top 10, that draft was bad overall. It’s amazing to look back and see the crap  

We definitely need 4 good picks this year. We were so close the last two years. 2017 especially. CMC, Samuel and Moton is an amazing haul. Thomas, Moore and Donte is great, but not quite up to that level. We just need to keep drafting like the last two and god willing get the 4th or 5th contributor. 

2016 is a good example on how a lot of casual fans severaly overestimate how easy it is to pull quality starters out of the draft. 

Looking back I'm not sure Vernon was quite the "reach" as some thought.  NFL.COM had him with the 26th highest grade and we picked 31.  He just wasn't someone that anyone around here had talked about before.  My guess is a lot of people around here spent most of their efforts discussing guys that went before that spot.

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20 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Totally agree.  I was a bit shocked that we didn't grab a center or guard last year.

I was hoping for the Daniels kid who ended going to the Bears. He could have played guard last year then slid over to center this year. It would have cost us Jackson though, and I saw what happened when Jackson got hurt against Seattle, so no bueno. 

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