Kyle Bailey suggests defense going 3-4 is an option

[Sub Zero]

5 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

I did all of this, Addison was projected as an OLB and did those drills in the combine. 

 

Thompson was looked at as a 3-4 ILB or WILL in the draft. Navarro is 6-0 and 240 lbs, pretty similar to Thompson. Shaq played ILB in college as well. 

Horton is 6-5 and 265, surprisingly he was listed at DE and OLB in draft profiles but with his skill set and size now he would project easily as a 3-4 end at worst for depth. 

KK is 29, not 31. he is probably the biggest reach I made at playing 3-4 end. Everything else I mentioned is based off draft profiles, skill sets..ext..

 

 

Addison OLB thing was 8 years ago before he spent 8 years gaining weight adding muscle losing flexibility.. Not to mention again that idea was based off draft scouts looking at his size and speed coming out of college and guessing what he might be able to do because again he wasn't playing olb in college.. His hands were always in the dirt.... Now he is 31 it's a different story now.. He doesn't have the time nor the youth to make that change..

Okay put Thompson in at ilb even thoe he still isn't big enough (as the avg. Ilb in a 3/4 ) and the only example you use to a player who (was still bigger than Shaq) got hurt and only had 2 to 3 years of great play at the position..

Again Horton is a FA.. You have to resign him to play in a defense he has never played before.. He isn't young.. So why do this because based on his size you think he can do it?? Instead of just getting a player who has..

 

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, Sub Zero said:

Why not just pay the money for a top level pass rusher 43 DE.. (Clowney, Clark, Flowers,) draft one in this Dline heavy draft.. Keep what you have like addison.. And you have a solid Dline..

That ^ makes a lot sense also.  Even if you don't get one of the top guys, I think there is a good chance they get tagged or resigned with their own team, you might could add someone like Brandon Graham.

Then for DT I really think we could probably find a day 1 starter in the second round.  This class is really deep at DT.

Graham - Butler - Draft Pick - Addison: doesn't sound too bad.  Upgrading just one or two spots on the D-line can help the other guys also.

Back ups could be

Horton/cheap FA - Butler - Love - Haynes

If Peppers comes back for one more year that is some more depth.  Also if they cut Poe they free up some cap to help offset singing a FA DE.

Maybe there is a good DE in the 1st and you grab him and he doesn't have to start, or maybe a corner or safety.  There are others way to improve the defense then just the D-line.

I'm not totally opposed to going 3-4, I just hope it doesn't force us to reach in the draft.

 

 

 

[PantherNation123]

59 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Addison OLB thing was 8 years ago before he spent 8 years gaining weight adding muscle losing flexibility.. Not to mention again that idea was based off draft scouts looking at his size and speed coming out of college and guessing what he might be able to do because again he wasn't playing olb in college.. His hands were always in the dirt.... Now he is 31 it's a different story now.. He doesn't have the time nor the youth to make that change..

Okay put Thompson in at ilb even thoe he still isn't big enough (as the avg. Ilb in a 3/4 ) and the only example you use to a player who (was still bigger than Shaq) got hurt and only had 2 to 3 years of great play at the position..

Again Horton is a FA.. You have to resign him to play in a defense he has never played before.. He isn't young.. So why do this because based on his size you think he can do it?? Instead of just getting a player who has..

 

I'm not sure what else we can say to convince this crowd.  Moving to a 3-4 would take so much personnel change and we wouldn't have a full roster built for it for 3-4 years.  Again to reiterate, you don't just flip a switch and magically become a 3-4 defense

[KendrickPanther]

How many guys on defense are really so important we would keep the scheme for them? Luke/TD were about it. Norman was great in our system but we cut him anyways.

[Sub Zero]

4 minutes ago, PantherNation123 said:

I'm not sure what else we can say to convince this crowd.  Moving to a 3-4 would take so much personnel change and we wouldn't have a full roster built for it for 3-4 years.  Again to reiterate, you don't just flip a switch and magically become a 3-4 defense

Agreed.... I don't see the intelligence in this.. Especially for a coach and GM worried about their jobs... Why try and make this big of scheme change in a make it break it year.. When your best and simple move is to rebuild your DE situation and add a few younger options in your secondary..

Oh and guess what .. FATE has given you a gift.. One of the strongest Dline drafts in years.  So not only can you sign some viable options you can draft them as well.. Just add to the older pieces you already have and tweak the scheme with younger and better players. 

I don't see why this isn't a easier and cheaper option while trying to save your job..

[carpanfan96]

7 minutes ago, PantherNation123 said:

I'm not sure what else we can say to convince this crowd.  Moving to a 3-4 would take so much personnel change and we wouldn't have a full roster built for it for 3-4 years.  Again to reiterate, you don't just flip a switch and magically become a 3-4 defense

Rams last year, switched to a 3-4. It's possible to switch and have depth. The defense in Carolina sucked, if the team is thinking about switching which seams to be the case...then they obviously think they have the players for it or will after draft and fa. 

[Sub Zero]

4 minutes ago, KendrickPanther said:

How many guys on defense are really so important we would keep the scheme for them? Luke/TD were about it. Norman was great in our system but we cut him anyways.

Good question.. None really .. The problem is this is a 2 to 3 year move and your coach and GM are fighting for their jobs.. They don't have 2 to 3 years..

[Sub Zero]

15 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

Rams last year, switched to a 3-4. It's possible to switch and have depth. The defense in Carolina sucked, if the team is thinking about switching which seams to be the case...then they obviously think they have the players for it or will after draft and fa. 

 

Where do you see a 3/4 base defense... Since signing SUh . They have alot of diversity in their scheme.. They can line up in both schemes.. Way better players and they started this 2017.. So yeah it has been 2 years for this.. Not to mention they still aren't a great defensive team...

[PantherNation123]

15 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Where do you see a 3/4 base defense.. They have alot of diversity in their scheme.. They can line up in both schemes.. Way better players and they started this 2017.. So yeah it has been 2 years for this..

Not to mention that the Rams defense was very porous this year, ranking worse than Carolina's (even though they had A LOT more talent).  If you want to suck even more for at least 2-4 years on defense, then sure let's move to a 3-4

[Sub Zero]

I get it..

Ppl still have the Nostalgia over the 3/4..

But reality still is most of the better defenses in the league are 43.. Most of the league run a 43 base..

And with some simple tweaks we can still be a strong 43 defense..

[Black&BlueBubba]

So here is my issue right now.  Can someone give me some name of some decent pass rushing 4-3 DE’s that we can target in the draft. There seems to be a couple really good ones at the top of the draft that will be gone by the time we pick. Then are are couple decent size guys like Zach Allen but he is good against the run, not rushing the passer. But there seems to be a ton of 3-4 DE guys that are good pass rushers that will be available.  

Give me a couple names to research.  

My concern is that there are only project 4-3 DE’s that are going to be in our range.  Which means we will have 2 more seasons of having to blitz to get to the QB.  And 2 more years watching our secondary get torched.  

People keep talking about how strong the DL is in this draft.  But the strength is interior DL and 3-4 outside from what I have seen so far.  

I would be fine sticking with a 4-3.  Show me how we are going to fix getting to the QB  next season in this draft.  Because I doubt we can afford any top 4-3 DE out there. 

Fire away!

[Sub Zero]

18 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

So here is my issue right now.  Can someone give me some name of some decent pass rushing 4-3 DE’s that we can target in the draft. There seems to be a couple really good ones at the top of the draft that will be gone by the time we pick. Then are are couple decent size guys like Zach Allen but he is good against the run, not rushing the passer. But there seems to be a ton of 3-4 DE guys that are good pass rushers that will be available.  

Give me a couple names to research.  

My concern is that there are only project 4-3 DE’s that are going to be in our range.  Which means we will have 2 more seasons of having to blitz to get to the QB.  And 2 more years watching our secondary get torched.  

People keep talking about how strong the DL is in this draft.  But the strength is interior DL and 3-4 outside from what I have seen so far.  

I would be fine sticking with a 4-3.  Show me how we are going to fix getting to the QB  next season in this draft.  Because I doubt we can afford any top 4-3 DE out there. 

Fire away!

Rashard Gary,  Celin Ferrell,  Montez Sweat, and Zach Allen

[Black&BlueBubba]

49 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Rashard Gary,  Celin Ferrell,  Montez Sweat, and Zach Allen

That’s what I was looking at.  Both Gary and Ferrell are supposed to be long gone before we pick.  Based on the tape I have watched and other profiles of Allen he is good against the run.  But lacks the speed and flexibility to rushe the passer effectively.  Sweat is one of the guys I was looking at.   But is 6’6” is only 241 lbs.   He could possibly develop into a decent end over time   But I don’t think that in next year so.  

Here is a scouting film  

Sweats analytics is actually pretty good.  And we know Tepper has a hard on for analytics  

here are his analytics:

My point is that people are arguing that it will take a year or so to transition to a 3-4 defense.  Peeper’s is gone and besides Addison I don’t see us having any pass rush for a couple of years.  That’s why I am not against the transition.  

Maybe we ought to draft a bunch of secondary early next year.  We are going to need it.  

[Sub Zero]

12 minutes ago, Black&BlueBubba said:

That’s what I was looking at.  Both Gary and Ferrell are supposed to be long gone before we pick.  Based on the tape I have watched and other profiles of Allen he is good against the run.  But lacks the speed and flexibility to rushe the passer effectively.  Sweat is one of the guys I was looking at.   But is 6’6” is only 241 lbs.   He could possibly develop into a decent end over time   But I don’t think that in next year so.  

Here is a scouting film  

Sweats analytics is actually pretty good.  And we know Tepper has a hard on for analytics  

here are his analytics:

My point is that people are arguing that it will take a year or so to transition to a 3-4 defense.  Peeper’s is gone and besides Addison I don’t see us having any pass rush for a couple of years.  That’s why I am not against the transition.  

Maybe we ought to draft a bunch of secondary early next year.  We are going to need it.  

But you can draft this kid and just sign a Quality DE in FA.. That gives you pass Rush next year.. Instead of trying to change a whole scheme with little to none of the pieces needed for it.