Would you be willing to sit Cam an entire season and see how he does after?

[LinvilleGorge]

21 minutes ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

we have the pieces to win what without cam? 3 games? if we're lucky? lol

Yep, we saw what we could do without Cam when we went 1-7 down the stretch with our only win coming against a Saints team resting their starters in week 17. That hit Cam took from Watt in the Steelers game pretty much ended his season, but just as he'd done before when Cam was playing with a known torn rotator cuff, Rivera just kept on trotting him out there every week.

[luke nukem]

if he is not having surgery then 5 months rest should be enough. if the problem persist have surgery and tank, get marty and ron out.

[MHS831]

No, and I can't believe the number of people who said they would.  I love Cam, but the Panthers are in a tough spot if sitting Cam for a season is the solution. You have to put your emotions away and become the GM...Don't do what you always accuse Marty of doing.

• If you sit Cam, you sacrifice an entire season on the chance that a 31-year old running QB can return to a form that was unable to win a Super Bowl to date.
• To get that one season from Cam, you spend about $50m.  Then you have to decide whether he is worth another $100m deal--at 31, a running qb with accuracy issues. 
• Cam has taken a beating. If the shoulder improves, could a series of other injuries follow? How much does he have left?
• Cam is not a cerebral QB.  He is a stunningly, freakishly athletic QB.   He does not read the secondary as well as Aaron Rodgers or Warren Moon did back in the day.  He has always relied on his arm strength to overcome his shortcoming in that area.  When he arm strength wanes and his legs become slower, he will need to resort to his football intelligence, and he is no Drew Brees in that area.  In other words, it is possible that we have seen the best of Cam Newton.
• Our personnel really suggests that we are shifting to more of a WCO--Cam is not the best fit for our emerging personnel. 
• We all fell in love with Cam (and he was probably damaged) because for a long time, we were able to get by on his athleticism when he had OL issues at T and WRs that were ass.  He had a TE--that was about it.  Now, however, we need his athleticism less because we have some game changers at WR and a stud RB who can do it all.  We do not need Cam like we did--if we spend our resources on the OL, a lesser, cheaper QB could be the right move.
• We have seen the data--the $25-30m QB-led teams are not in the playoffs.  You are suggesting that we sacrifice a season for a "show me" season so that we can decide whether or not to move on or pay for a QB whose particular skill set will likely be on the decline. 
• If you look at the situation from the GM's perspective, this makes you bring in a QB--the draft is not good this season.  So we will have to use a draft pick or cap space to sign a veteran. We have nothing riding the pine (that has been proven).
• The GM an Coach are probably on "double secret probation."  They are not going to buy into this idea, unless we bring in a vet QB who can win--like Fitz maybe--for a year.  But if Tepper does not give them job security, and he shouldn't, they will not like it and will not do it.  They will go into "win now" mode, and if Cam is banged up, they could cut ties immediately.  Remember, Ron and Marty do whatever they can to save their jobs, even if it hurts the franchise in the long run.

Talk about an emotional attachment to a player--that is the case here--even for me.  However, the only reason I see a year-long sabbatical being worth the investment of time and money is if the return would benefit the Panthers for years to come.  Cam's heart might want to stay on forever, but his strengths will start diminishing soon and his weaknesses will become more evident.  And he is not the kind of QB who plays into his mid thirties.  If Cam's shoulder requires a year to heal and his contract expires the year following that year, considering the type of QB he is, I have to betray my heart and suggest we move on.

HOWEVER, this may not be the year to find his replacement.  If so, then draft a QB NEXT year--during Cam's return--and prepare him for 2021.

 

[coralreefer_1]

17 hours ago, MHS831 said:

No, and I can't believe the number of people who said they would.  I love Cam, but the Panthers are in a tough spot if sitting Cam for a season is the solution. You have to put your emotions away and become the GM...Don't do what you always accuse Marty of doing.

• If you sit Cam, you sacrifice an entire season on the chance that a 31-year old running QB can return to a form that was unable to win a Super Bowl to date.
• To get that one season from Cam, you spend about $50m.  Then you have to decide whether he is worth another $100m deal--at 31, a running qb with accuracy issues. 
• Cam has taken a beating. If the shoulder improves, could a series of other injuries follow? How much does he have left?
• Cam is not a cerebral QB.  He is a stunningly, freakishly athletic QB.   He does not read the secondary as well as Aaron Rodgers or Warren Moon did back in the day.  He has always relied on his arm strength to overcome his shortcoming in that area.  When he arm strength wanes and his legs become slower, he will need to resort to his football intelligence, and he is no Drew Brees in that area.  In other words, it is possible that we have seen the best of Cam Newton.
• Our personnel really suggests that we are shifting to more of a WCO--Cam is not the best fit for our emerging personnel. 
• We all fell in love with Cam (and he was probably damaged) because for a long time, we were able to get by on his athleticism when he had OL issues at T and WRs that were ass.  He had a TE--that was about it.  Now, however, we need his athleticism less because we have some game changers at WR and a stud RB who can do it all.  We do not need Cam like we did--if we spend our resources on the OL, a lesser, cheaper QB could be the right move.
• We have seen the data--the $25-30m QB-led teams are not in the playoffs.  You are suggesting that we sacrifice a season for a "show me" season so that we can decide whether or not to move on or pay for a QB whose particular skill set will likely be on the decline. 
• If you look at the situation from the GM's perspective, this makes you bring in a QB--the draft is not good this season.  So we will have to use a draft pick or cap space to sign a veteran. We have nothing riding the pine (that has been proven).
• The GM an Coach are probably on "double secret probation."  They are not going to buy into this idea, unless we bring in a vet QB who can win--like Fitz maybe--for a year.  But if Tepper does not give them job security, and he shouldn't, they will not like it and will not do it.  They will go into "win now" mode, and if Cam is banged up, they could cut ties immediately.  Remember, Ron and Marty do whatever they can to save their jobs, even if it hurts the franchise in the long run.

Talk about an emotional attachment to a player--that is the case here--even for me.  However, the only reason I see a year-long sabbatical being worth the investment of time and money is if the return would benefit the Panthers for years to come.  Cam's heart might want to stay on forever, but his strengths will start diminishing soon and his weaknesses will become more evident.  And he is not the kind of QB who plays into his mid thirties.  If Cam's shoulder requires a year to heal and his contract expires the year following that year, considering the type of QB he is, I have to betray my heart and suggest we move on.

HOWEVER, this may not be the year to find his replacement.  If so, then draft a QB NEXT year--during Cam's return--and prepare him for 2021.

 

I wish i could pie this more than one.

By the way, you are gonna get called a racist for saying this. That is the default position for those that believe Cam is god. 

[ThPantherFan]

9 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Well?

Yes.  If they don't, he's probably never going to be back to his top performance.  He's not a young man anymore.

[MHS831]

Just now, coralreefer_1 said:

I wish i could pie this more than one.

By the way, you are gonna get called a racist for saying this. That is the default position for those that believe Cam is god. 

You have to honestly evaluate the player as you see it.  If you start thinking with your heart or using subjective reasoning, you will not be able to think clearly. 

Anyone who calls me a racist for this thread is using emotion over logic.  If they think so, then race is their agenda, not mine. 

I analyze the fact that the Panthers skimped on OL and WR because they had a QB who could do it all--not having good WRs and using the run as much as he did hindered his development.  Not having a good OC an QB coach hindered his development.  So he is who he is as a result.

[coralreefer_1]

17 hours ago, MHS831 said:

You have to honestly evaluate the player as you see it.  If you start thinking with your heart or using subjective reasoning, you will not be able to think clearly. 

Anyone who calls me a racist for this thread is using emotion over logic.  If they think so, then race is their agenda, not mine. 

I analyze the fact that the Panthers skimped on OL and WR because they had a QB who could do it all--not having good WRs and using the run as much as he did hindered his development.  Not having a good OC an QB coach hindered his development.  So he is who he is as a result.

You are not wrong at all. I have said the same exact things over the past 2 weeks. Granted, I don't do it as eloquently and dont have the post count to get notice except from the haters for my name and not my content. 

[coralreefer_1]

 

 

 

[Moose Hoover]

sit on what?

[Cuttinedge]

Anyone watch Luck and what he’s done with his footwork to be able to throw after surgery and a year off.

Anyone think Cams gonna do that ?  Cams got by on freakish  talent. Hard to change after relying on that for so many years. He’ll back foot one get hit late because we  have a turnstile for a LT , and be in same position again sooner than later. It is what it is 

[Dex]

Ehhh. It may be time to start planning for the future. A Cam with a bum shoulder still wins us games. But he also cost us 2 I can think of. He can't toss the long ball which hamstrings our offense because defenses can game plane for it. It's most likely going to come down to the money. Spend 50 million on the chance he returns to 2015 MVP level? We'll see how Tepper feels about that. I'm biased because I love me some Cam but objectively speaking it's a gamble that may not be worth taking.

[coralreefer_1]

17 hours ago, Dex said:

Ehhh. It may be time to start planning for the future. A Cam with a bum shoulder still wins us games. But he also cost us 2 I can think of. He can't toss the long ball which hamstrings our offense because defenses can game plane for it. It's most likely going to come down to the money. Spend 50 million on the chance he returns to 2015 MVP level? We'll see how Tepper feels about that. I'm biased because I love me some Cam but objectively speaking it's a gamble that may not be worth taking.

I cant even fathom spending 50 million and then shortly after having to go into new contract talks. Cam's contract was signed years ago. the new one? Of course the base figure is going to be on the average of QB's at that time, not early 2010's.  If you tell Cam/agent we want to offer below 2020 market value because you have a history of injury, and still cant improve your footwork ( QB fundamentals) does he say " Yeah, Carolina...you are right" and take what we offer him? More likely than not he is gonna be the playa and take what someone else offers him.  And I cant blame him for that. In the meantime we are talking about sitting a man for a season...the mofo LEADER of the team, and paying him his regular pay, but he will walk anyway!

We need a new QB. And not one like Cam. Not one to learn from him (cam hasnt learned from his coaches even footwork). 

I'm just gonna say it because this is the way this franchise has treated Cam. They drafted a big strong field hand to do the job of a house hand. He doesn't have the finesse to be a house hand which is what the job required. So the Panthers used him like a mule to make up for that. Now that same man is broken, and likely will never have the same touch to be a good house hand again. Cam is not Luck. Cam will not get the same type of care as luck ( one is a hand, the other is a good ol boy) so talking about what Luck did and what he came back from is meaningless. 

Honestly the more this goes on, the more and more i dislike this team because of the way they have, do, and will continue to use Cam like a fuging mule!!! It's shameful. This organization didn't care enough to take care of Cam last year. Tepper the god Igo said was coming seems to not give a hot damn about it. Here it is January...is Cam in surgery yet?  If not...why? We know why! They rode that mule into the dirt, and now it is done. 

Cam will be far better off leaving this team. Finish the contract, and retire Cam. Any other team is just going to treat him the same. Carolina hired him to be a mule, and he will forever be stuck with that. Take the money, retire young, heal your body and take care of your family. 

[GoobyPls]

Unless he gets surgery why the hell would he sit out?????

[raz]

12 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Unless he gets surgery why the hell would he sit out?????

pain.  if you are lucky enough to never have had physical pain rule your life you just can't understand the situation.  i hope it never happens to anyone.    you can't think correctly, you can't process information correctly, you can hardly stand being awake.  shoulders are easy to damage and painful to heal.   scar tissue is a mf