Center.......what would you do?

[L-TownCat]

Re-sign Wilks to bolster the defense from x's and o's.

Spend every dollar, draft pick, UDFA signing and sexual favor to fix the O-line.

(Brace Your Anus For This Next Sentence)

I want a BIG BEAUTIFUL FUGGIN WALL!

6'6 of the finest USDA beef money and fame can buy, racked and stacked from Tackle to shining Tackle.

 

[Khyber53]

2 hours ago, heel31ok said:

later rounds maybe ...not first rd

I've got to disagree here. 

A top notch player is a necessity at center if you are to have a winning team. The center needs to be pretty good sized and strong, but more importantly he has to be smart. His job isn't just to get the ball to the QB and then get clobbered. He has to be able to master under center, shotgun and pistol exchanges not just with the starting QB, but also with the backup QB and any wildcat or radical jet sweep players. He also has to know the planned protections for each play and be able to call changes to protection based on defensive alignment and movement. This requires playbook knowledge, defensive reading and a helluva leadership trait. The guy also has to be able to be stout enough to take on a pro-level NT solo now and then and quick enough to shift off of a block to take on a fast moving middle linebacker. In our playbook, the center is often also called on to chip block and move out to the second level of the defense to create extra downfield blocking. (This last one is something Ryan Kalil was excellent at in his heyday but Larsen seems less capable of).

A guy that can do all of that and be durable for a decade of every offensive down service is mighty rare and mighty sought after. That's why you rarely see a Pro Bowl one out on the free agent market. Every team should have a second tier center on staff for emergency replacement like Larsen or Hangartner before him, but that's not your lead dog. If that guy is your lead dog, your sled is gonna bog down pretty fast.

Right now, I don't think there's anything of more importance that securing a first round quality, long-term center for this team in the upcoming draft. DEs can always be found or rented on the FA market. We might be safe at tackle if everything shakes out right. RB we are set at. QB we are set at (lets hope Cam's arm heals fully or we're back on the carousel). WRs we're good and getting better. TE is iffy but looks promising. We have LBs falling off the back of the truck around here. DTs are fair if overpaid. CBs are finally showing promise. One safety looks good if we can resign him and the other, well, safety is the least important position on defense so we have room.

Center. If you pick right and go all in, you can get the guy who will mesh with Cam and be his biggest ally for the rest of Cam's career. You'll also have, by that time, an experienced center who can bring the next franchise QB along and develop leadership among a pretty young group of linemen.

 

[Khyber53]

22 hours ago, RumHam said:

We have too many pressing needs. Everyone is going to say we draft someone high. We can't draft everyone high. Larsen has been groomed to take over. We're rolling with him. 

That's the NFL equivalent of replacing a flat tire with the donut spare and riding it out until the end of the month. 

 

[heel31ok]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

I've got to disagree here. 

A top notch player is a necessity at center if you are to have a winning team. The center needs to be pretty good sized and strong, but more importantly he has to be smart. His job isn't just to get the ball to the QB and then get clobbered. He has to be able to master under center, shotgun and pistol exchanges not just with the starting QB, but also with the backup QB and any wildcat or radical jet sweep players. He also has to know the planned protections for each play and be able to call changes to protection based on defensive alignment and movement. This requires playbook knowledge, defensive reading and a helluva leadership trait. The guy also has to be able to be stout enough to take on a pro-level NT solo now and then and quick enough to shift off of a block to take on a fast moving middle linebacker. In our playbook, the center is often also called on to chip block and move out to the second level of the defense to create extra downfield blocking. (This last one is something Ryan Kalil was excellent at in his heyday but Larsen seems less capable of).

A guy that can do all of that and be durable for a decade of every offensive down service is mighty rare and mighty sought after. That's why you rarely see a Pro Bowl one out on the free agent market. Every team should have a second tier center on staff for emergency replacement like Larsen or Hangartner before him, but that's not your lead dog. If that guy is your lead dog, your sled is gonna bog down pretty fast.

Right now, I don't think there's anything of more importance that securing a first round quality, long-term center for this team in the upcoming draft. DEs can always be found or rented on the FA market. We might be safe at tackle if everything shakes out right. RB we are set at. QB we are set at (lets hope Cam's arm heals fully or we're back on the carousel). WRs we're good and getting better. TE is iffy but looks promising. We have LBs falling off the back of the truck around here. DTs are fair if overpaid. CBs are finally showing promise. One safety looks good if we can resign him and the other, well, safety is the least important position on defense so we have room.

Center. If you pick right and go all in, you can get the guy who will mesh with Cam and be his biggest ally for the rest of Cam's career. You'll also have, by that time, an experienced center who can bring the next franchise QB along and develop leadership among a pretty young group of linemen.

 

my objection to 1st rd is according to the talent we have to pick from, not the position ...which is also why I would like to draft versatility on the line such as the example I have given on other threads a Dalton Risner (2-3 rd) who can play OT/OC ...I do not see a big splash OC in the first worth the pick...would love a Jawaan Taylor in 1st if available...but this also depends on the DE available at 16...

[Khyber53]

17 hours ago, heel31ok said:

my objection to 1st rd is according to the talent we have to pick from, not the position ...which is also why I would like to draft versatility on the line such as the example I have given on other threads a Dalton Risner (2-3 rd) who can play OT/OC ...I do not see a big splash OC in the first worth the pick...would love a Jawaan Taylor in 1st if available...but this also depends on the DE available at 16...

I'm going to defer to your better knowledge of the draft prospects available here. I think Center is of top importance and I think you get the best one available when your pick comes up, rather than reaching. If there's not a verifiable great one there, though, you've got to pick the best O-lineman and hope Larsen can hold the fort for the season with the help of the new guy.

Gosh, though, all the talk here would be a lot simpler if we just new whether come this August if we'll be readying the year with the 2015 Cam or the 2018 Cam all over again. If Cam's still broken down, maybe we just start building that D-line in stead.

[My Goodness My Guinness]

I think Larsen is fine to step into starting center. He was much better as a center in 2017 than guard in 2018, so much so that people we wanting Kalil to retire so Larsen could take over. 

I'm all for the idea of starting with what you know (that Larsen is an average center) and planning for the worst (having a backup plan ie. mid-round draft pick or FA). This should go for the entire O-line honestly. Ideally our starting lineup week 1 should be at the least: Moton, Van Roten, Larsen, Turner, Williams. Draft another T and G/C for depth, cut bad Kalil, eat the dead money, and move on. 

[My Goodness My Guinness]

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I don’t usually agree with heel, but C or G (Van Roten and Larsen are the weak points in my plan) at 47 will likely be a very good one and not enough of a drop off from the guy you reached for at 16. 16 is likely going to be a good D player. I don’t think any of the OT are good enough to risk passing up a D stud. My plan is to resign Williams so we’ve got Williams, Moton and Turner and need interior help.

After 16 of DL (hopefully) and the best damn C or G at 47, we go DL or OL unless a good S or CB is there. 

I agree mostly. First round should be D-line (DE or DT whichever is better at the time) rounds 2-5 should be some mix of tackle, guard, center, safety. Then draft another project DE later. Not sure what rounds our picks are in, just spit-balling. 

[bobcat91]

McCoy or Jenkins in the second are viable options. We really have so many holes that BPA works in all of the rounds. I dont want any trades because we cant afford to lose a single pick or think that one player will solve our issues.

[My Goodness My Guinness]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

While I wish we were at 9 because it would make the DL in round 1 so much easier, I like our  picks. Since we are tied at 7-9, our pick actually gets better every round. Round 2 we are 15, round 3 we are 14 and round 4 we are 13. So, we’ve got 16, 47 and 77 that we know. We will also be getting a 3rd comp for Norwell which I’ve seen around 4th behind people like Cousins, so that should be 100. Our 4th is after the 3rd comes so let’s say there are 5 3rd round comps. That gives us pick 16, 47, 77, 100 and 114 as well as a 5th and 6th. We don’t have a 7th but 5 picks in the top 114 should be really nice.

My ideal scenario is signing Williams and another S/CB before the draft and then:

1 DE or DT

2 C or G

3 DE or DT

3 C or G

4 DL

5 OL

6 OL

2nd is a sweet spot for interior OL and 3/4 seems to be good for DL.

Ah I see. I feel like we HAVE to try to take a tackle somewhere. I know the chances that a 2nd or 3rd round C or G will be much safer than a T, but it's such a big hole that we have starter and depth wise. I mean, we probably won't be able to retain Williams, but I hope we do. 

[Riv]

Go get Bradbury and Prescod from State and reap the benefits from getting two elite offensive lineman who had the benefit of playing together for the last 4 years.

[TheCasillas]

just dont pull a hartwig