The Eldest Panthers - Who do you keep?

[TN05]

Just now, thefuzz said:

How did Cat enter this conversation?

I misread. Assumed the insistence that he is worse than a cheap kicker meant Catanzero since I've clearly established he and Butker are both elite kickers, with Gano having a better leg. 

Just now, thefuzz said:

He was chosen by Gettleman.  Then he became erratic and expensive, and it was time to move on to a cheaper younger option.

Except he didn't, being the most accurate kicker in 2017 and an elite kicker this year who made a game-winning 63 yarder. When had Butker even made a 55-yarder?

[thefuzz]

2 minutes ago, TN05 said:

I misread. Assumed the insistence that he is worse than a cheap kicker meant Catanzero since I've clearly established he and Butker are both elite kickers, with Gano having a better leg. 

Except he didn't, being the most accurate kicker in 2017 and an elite kicker this year who made a game-winning 63 yarder. When had Butker even made a 55-yarder?

Again.  Butker has attempted more kicks, with less misses than Graham Gano since he has been in the league.

He would have cost us about 900,000 over that time period vs 8,000,000 for Gano.

This isn't about made 55+ yard field goals, this is about having a kicker that is just as good, if not better on your roster, signed long term, that makes FAR less than your option.

 

[TN05]

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Again.  Butker has attempted more kicks, with less misses than Graham Gano since he has been in the league.

Lol. The two are almost identical, except Gano misses more extra points but has a stronger leg. Gano was the most accurate kicker in 2017

2 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

He would have cost us about 900,000 over that time period vs 8,000,000 for Gano.

This isn't about made 55+ yard field goals, this is about having a kicker that is just as good, if not better on your roster, signed long term, that makes FAR less than your option.

If Hurney was able to travel to the future, he might have decided to do that - or not, since Gano is just as good. What is clear is that, in training camp, Butker looked awful. Gano looked good. Hurney went with the player who looked good. Butker was waived, nobody claimed him and he went on the practice squad. If Butker looked so good, why did nobody claim him?

[thefuzz]

5 minutes ago, TN05 said:

Lol. The two are almost identical, except Gano misses more extra points but has a stronger leg. Gano was the most accurate kicker in 2017

If Hurney was able to travel to the future, he might have decided to do that - or not, since Gano is just as good. What is clear is that, in training camp, Butker looked awful. Gano looked good. Hurney went with the player who looked good. Butker was waived, nobody claimed him and he went on the practice squad. If Butker looked so good, why did nobody claim him?

The two are not "almost identical".

Butker has attempted 196 kicks, and missed 11.

Gano has attempted 116 kicks, and missed 9.

 

Butker miss rate:  5.61

Gano miss rate:  7.75

 

Gano has cost us $63,790 per attempt.

Butker has cost KC $4,785.00 per attempt.

 

[TN05]

29 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

The two are not "almost identical".

Butker has attempted 196 kicks, and missed 11.

Gano has attempted 116 kicks, and missed 9.

You are including extra points in the exact same category as field goals, which is dumb.

29 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Butker miss rate:  5.61

Gano miss rate:  7.75

 

Gano has cost us $63,790 per attempt.

Butker has cost KC $4,785.00 per attempt.

How many game-winning field goals in Foxboro does Butker have?

How about field goals longer than 55 yards?

How about seasons being the most accurate kicker?

[thefuzz]

Just now, TN05 said:

You are including extra points in the exact same category as field goals, which is dumb.

How many game-winning field goals in Foxboro does Butker have?

How about field goals longer than 55 yards?

How about seasons being the most accurate kicker?

That's not dumb.  You pay a kicker to kick.  They kick field goals and extra points.  That's it.

Why do you keep asking me about game winning kicks in Foxboro?  Gano went 2/2 and 3/4 on extra points the last time we played the Pats, Butker went 4/4 and 4/4 on extra points the last time they played.

In 50+ yard field goals over the 17 and 18 seasons Gano was 3 of 5, and Butker was 2 of 4.

Did you care to talk about the cost per attempt?  The conversion %?  The players that we could have signed by not keeping Gano?  The fact that he missed games this season?

 

[thefuzz]

12 minutes ago, TN05 said:

You are including extra points in the exact same category as field goals, which is dumb.

How many game-winning field goals in Foxboro does Butker have?

How about field goals longer than 55 yards?

How about seasons being the most accurate kicker?

Just wanted to laugh at that first statement again...especially from someone claiming to be a Panthers fan.

Should we take out CMC's yards from catching the ball because he is a running back?

How about let's remove Cam's rushing yards and rushing TD's because he is a QB?

You pay players to do their jobs.  Part of Gano's job is to kick extra points.  

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, TN05 said:

lmao

31 isn't remotely old for a kicker and he's well above-average, the best kicker in the league last year and one of the best this year.

You need to get your answer to the question of why did Butkers not get picked up by 31 other teams when he got waived. If he was so good and it was obvious that he was that good and on a cheap 4 year deal they why didn't one other GM think Butkers was better than who they had including kickers who got fired last year and this. The reality is it wasn't obvious and Hurney did what we always do with developmental guys which is sign them to the practice squad. The fact that Hurney critics have kept this alive for 2 years is ridiculous. But you waste your time getting them to concede anything. Just be content that Tepper does have a clue and the ear of any football expert out there. He  thinks Hurney and Rivera are better than they get credit for in this forum. It is just good folks on here have no power in deciding anything about the team.

[thefuzz]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You need to get your answer to the question of why did Butkers not get picked up by 31 other teams when he got waived. If he was so good and it was obvious that he was that good and on a cheap 4 year deal they why didn't one other GM think Butkers was better than who they had including kickers who got fired last year and this. The reality is it wasn't obvious and Hurney did what we always do with developmental guys which is sign them to the practice squad. The fact that Hurney critics have kept this alive for 2 years is ridiculous. But you waste your time getting them to concede anything. Just be content that Tepper does have a clue and the ear of any football expert out there. He  thinks Hurney and Rivera are better than they get credit for in this forum. It is just good folks on here have no power in deciding anything about the team.

Jesus F Christ.

It's because they had kickers on their rosters that either have the job locked up tight after a training camp battle, or they have kickers on their rosters that have been entrenched for years.  We had just drafted a kicker, so at the very least the GM of the Panthers thought that Gano needed to be either pushed, or sent to pasture.

Not 1 team had the ability to watch Butker kick during training camp, and he only attempted 2 field goals during the pre-season...making them both while Gano attempted 5 making only 3.

It's not that fuging difficult.

[panthers55]

24 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Jesus F Christ.

It's because they had kickers on their rosters that either have the job locked up tight after a training camp battle, or they have kickers on their rosters that have been entrenched for years.  We had just drafted a kicker, so at the very least the GM of the Panthers thought that Gano needed to be either pushed, or sent to pasture.

Not 1 team had the ability to watch Butker kick during training camp, and he only attempted 2 field goals during the pre-season...making them both while Gano attempted 5 making only 3.

It's not that fuging difficult.

But you answered your question. How great was Butker in camp,? Scuttlebutt was not good. So if we didn't see much either and no one else did what exactly would lead anyone to take a big risk on a player no one knew much about. I speculate that Butker was brought as insurance and competition not to actually start. So to assume that most GMs who are risk aversive would dump their entrenched guy who not only kicks field goals but leads the league in number of touchbacks  for years (before the rules changed and the art is now kick it to the one and try and pin them back) for a 7th rounder mediocre unproven guy is far fetched.  It is easy to sit back and tell everyone else what you would do if you were GM taking all kinds of chances but much different to do it. It isn't whether we should have kept one or the other but could you have taken that chance to keep Butkers and dump Gano versus keep Gano and try and stash Butkers on the practice squad. The money wasn't the biggest issue  as we were willing to absorb both salaries  Hurney is not an idiot or incompetent because he took the safe route and got burned when Butkers got snatched 2 weeks later due to injury. It is your hyperbole and animus to the point of being a caricature that is the issue. If it even was a mistake in hindsight it wasn't obvious. You just wanted Butkers because you hate Gano as well as Hurney.

[Basbear]

IMO the treatment of Peppers had a negative effect on the DL as a whole. Peppers didn't even show up till the 5th game aka after his preseason was over. He's a Hofer and all,  working on the side while the DL sweats during drills, must have had a negative effect. After week one the DL looked lazy and got pushed around the most since the Seifert era.

 

Id honestly wait on peppers, after week 2 if he wanted to sign. Go into training camp everyone hungry and everyone works together. 

[Shocker]

11 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Here is a list of the eldest Panthers currently on the roster posted on Panthers.com, from oldest to youngest, 30 years old or older. 

Julius Peppers
Mike Adams
Thomas Davis
Chris Clark
Greg Olsen
Kalil_Ryan
J.J. Jansen
Kyle Love
Graham Gano
Mario Addison
Colin Jones
Marshall Newhouse
Da'Norris Searcy
Amini Silatolu
Captain Munnerlyn
Ben Jacobs

 

Who on this list do you want to see return in 2019?
 

Gano (yeah big $$ but he is good), Peppers, TD, Love, Addison

[Palmetto]

It's officially the off season.

We have an all out argument about kickers that includes detailed stats 

[juliosantos]

Td and Addison