The Eldest Panthers - Who do you keep?

[jbland]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Here is a list of the eldest Panthers currently on the roster posted on Panthers.com, from oldest to youngest, 30 years old or older. 

Julius Peppers
Mike Adams
Thomas Davis
Chris Clark
Greg Olsen
Kalil_Ryan
J.J. Jansen
Kyle Love
Graham Gano
Mario Addison
Colin Jones
Marshall Newhouse
Da'Norris Searcy
Amini Silatolu
Captain Munnerlyn
Ben Jacobs

 

Who on this list do you want to see return in 2019?
 

Depending on cap hits none of them. Its time for a rebuild. Maybe Peppers on vet minimum. 

[thefuzz]

That Gano contract was so fuging stupid.

Honestly, I can see us bringing in TD at vet min if he agrees to a diminished role, however not one cell in my brain thinks that Ron won't start him.

If Pep wants back at vet min as well, I'm fine with it...but he needs to be truly situational.  Again I don't trust Ron on that role.

Gano needs to be gone, but Marty's buffoonish ass has him here for another year likely, and you know Ron and his vets.

Addison is fine coming back.

Adams needs to be gone.

Olsen needs to decide if he wants to actually play football.  Another one of Hurneys complete F ups.

Maybe Colin Jones, as our ST did seem to improve this year, and he is a good ST'er.

We need to get  younger, especially if Cam is going to sit for the season.  (like I think he should)

[mc52beast]

Keep Peppers and TD on team friendly deals, 

keep Love, Addison, Gano, Jansen and Newhouse

 

In case anyone is unaware, Ryan Kalil just retired

[TN05]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Yeah, its not like you can just draft a 7th round kicker for cheap to out perform him.

That 7th rounder looked like garbage in training camp and hasn’t actually outperformed Gano. Gano led the league in accuracy in 2017 and the two were basically identical this year, and Gano has a stronger leg (Butker’s career long is 54).

[TN05]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Here is a list of the eldest Panthers currently on the roster posted on Panthers.com, from oldest to youngest, 30 years old or older. 

Julius Peppers
Mike Adams
Thomas Davis
Chris Clark
Greg Olsen
J.J. Jansen
Kyle Love
Graham Gano
Mario Addison
Colin Jones
Marshall Newhouse
Da'Norris Searcy
Amini Silatolu
Captain Munnerlyn
Ben Jacobs
 

 

[thefuzz]

5 minutes ago, TN05 said:

That 7th rounder looked like garbage in training camp and hasn’t actually outperformed Gano. Gano led the league in accuracy in 2017 and the two were basically identical this year, and Gano has a stronger leg (Butker’s career long is 54).

Lead the league in accuracy...while missing 4 kicks out of 67.

Butker missed 4 kicks out of 70.

Gano cost us 4M in 2017.

Butker would have cost us 485K in 2017.

 

Anyone who defends this move doesn't understand roster building, contracts, nor the salary cap.

Much like Marty Hurney.

[TN05]

5 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Lead the league in accuracy...while missing 4 kicks out of 67.

Butker missed 4 kicks out of 70.

Gano cost us 4M in 2017.

Butker would have cost us 485K in 2017.

 

Anyone who defends this move doesn't understand roster building, contracts, nor the salary cap.

Much like Marty Hurney.

He led the league in accuracy on field goals, correct. In terms of points he was superior.

The choice in 2017 was between a kicker coming off a bad year or a kicker who looked like complete garbage in training camp. Hurney chose Gano over the rookie who looked bad.

Turns out, you couldn’t lose. Both have been among the best in the league. However, has Butler made a 63-yarder or a game-winner in Foxboro? He’s markedly worse beyond 50 than Gano. 

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Lead the league in accuracy...while missing 4 kicks out of 67.

Butker missed 4 kicks out of 70.

Gano cost us 4M in 2017.

Butker would have cost us 485K in 2017.

 

Anyone who defends this move doesn't understand roster building, contracts, nor the salary cap.

Much like Marty Hurney.

Not true at all.  Opting to keep a known entity who ends up in the probowl and accounted for 1/3 of our points versus an unproven rookie who was mediocre in training camp is doing what most GMs would do. We didn't dump him we put him on the practice squad. He passed waivers so it isn't like anyone thought he was such a good deal at the time. 2 weeks later due to injury KC snatches him up because they needed someone and he ends doing a great job. Great for them but your version of what happened is pretty skewed from reality and has the benefit of hindsight where everyone is an expert and can take easy shots at others.

[Mr. Scot]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Here is a list of the eldest Panthers currently on the roster posted on Panthers.com, from oldest to youngest, 30 years old or older. 

Julius Peppers
Mike Adams
Thomas Davis
Chris Clark
Greg Olsen
Kalil_Ryan
J.J. Jansen
Kyle Love
Graham Gano
Mario Addison
Colin Jones
Marshall Newhouse
Da'Norris Searcy
Amini Silatolu
Captain Munnerlyn
Ben Jacobs

 

Who on this list do you want to see return in 2019?

Love is the only guy on the offense or defense I could see bringing back, though even he's expendable. I know some will say Addison but he looked to be starting to decline last season.

Couple of special teamers maybe: Jacobs, Jones, Jansen, though they could probably get younger equivalents for all three (yes, Jansen included).

And to the big names - Davis, Olsen and Peppers - it's time to move on. Ryan Kalil isn't coming back.

Frankly, that list reads to me as a whole lot of replaceable.

[thefuzz]

26 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Not true at all.  Opting to keep a known entity who ends up in the probowl and accounted for 1/3 of our points versus an unproven rookie who was mediocre in training camp is doing what most GMs would do. We didn't dump him we put him on the practice squad. He passed waivers so it isn't like anyone thought he was such a good deal at the time. 2 weeks later due to injury KC snatches him up because they needed someone and he ends doing a great job. Great for them but your version of what happened is pretty skewed from reality and has the benefit of hindsight where everyone is an expert and can take easy shots at others.

Pro Bowl means nothing.

Who cares how many points he was tasked with bringing in, that's what Kickers do?

There is no skewing with my numbers, nor my hindsight.  I called it then, I'm calling it now.

It was a stupid move, by a scared interim GM and a vet loving head coach.

Butker was young, cheap, and just as good, if not better than Gano.  It was a chicken poo move then, and it was compounded by extending Gano to a HUGE kicker deal.

It's just bad roster management, and cap management.

[thefuzz]

36 minutes ago, TN05 said:

He led the league in accuracy on field goals, correct. In terms of points he was superior.

The choice in 2017 was between a kicker coming off a bad year or a kicker who looked like complete garbage in training camp. Hurney chose Gano over the rookie who looked bad.

Turns out, you couldn’t lose. Both have been among the best in the league. However, has Butler made a 63-yarder or a game-winner in Foxboro? He’s markedly worse beyond 50 than Gano. 

This is soooo dumb.

Butker missed less kicks than Gano did in 17, and the same held true in 18.

If you only care about a 63 yard field goal vs. the cap savings then we can't have a conversation.  You have to bring in roster building into the conversation, or you are just being as obtuse at Hurney.  Gano was entering the last year of his deal, and we were getting a player entering a 4 year rookie deal for a LOT cheaper.

Cheaper players aren't supposed to be as good as expensive players, yet here we are.

[Navy_football]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

 

 

Taking out the emotion, I would go with:

Julius Peppers - only on a team friendly deal where he would serve as depth and veteran presence for a draft pick. 
Mike Adams - only on a team friendly deal where he would serve as depth and veteran presence for a draft pick. 
Thomas Davis - only on a team friendly deal which he's expressed a desire to provide.
Chris Clark - No, move on

Greg Olsen - No, time to move on. 
Kalil_Ryan - OBE, Retired.
J.J. Jansen - bring him back.
Kyle Love - bring him back.
Graham Gano - No, I think the team could get younger and more consistent in big moments. He's made some big kicks, but                              he's missed some untimely gimmies.
Mario Addison - Yes, of course.
Colin Jones - as long he's relegated to STs only.
Marshall Newhouse - Who?
Da'Norris Searcy - as depth only.
Amini Silatolu - No, no, no. Can't give Ron the option of ever putting him back in a game. 
Captain Munnerlyn - No. Time to get younger and faster at the NB. 
Ben Jacobs - No. Use a younger late draft pick or UDFA for STs role. 

[TN05]

8 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

This is soooo dumb.

Butker missed less kicks than Gano did in 17, and the same held true in 18.

"Less kicks" values PATs the same as field goals, which is sophistry. Gano made 97% of his field goals, Butler made 91%. Both are excellent, but one is clearly better.

Gano was the most accurate kicker in the league in 2017. Period. 

Quote

If you only care about a 63 yard field goal vs. the cap savings then we can't have a conversation.  You have to bring in roster building into the conversation, or you are just being as obtuse at Hurney.  Gano was entering the last year of his deal, and we were getting a player entering a 4 year rookie deal for a LOT cheaper.

Cheaper players aren't supposed to be as good as expensive players, yet here we are.

Cheaper players are one thing, garbage players are another. Butker looked awful in training camp and Gano looked great. Hurney made the logical choice, unless you think picking players who look awful over ones who look good makes sense. There is a reason we didn't choose him over Gano, and nobody else wanted him until the Chiefs kicker got hurt.

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Pro Bowl means nothing.

Who cares how many points he was tasked with bringing in, that's what Kickers do?

There is no skewing with my numbers, nor my hindsight.  I called it then, I'm calling it now.

It was a stupid move, by a scared interim GM and a vet loving head coach.

Butker was young, cheap, and just as good, if not better than Gano.  It was a chicken poo move then, and it was compounded by extending Gano to a HUGE kicker deal.

It's just bad roster management, and cap management.

At the time we made the decision Butker wasn't as good or proven. And yeah making the probowl and being recognized as the best kicker in the league is a big deal  And we tried to stash him on the practice squad to develop him as all teams and GMs do. It happened before under Gettleman as well, we try and stash a player and another team takes him. It isn't at all the huge deal you make it out to be. You always take plenty of time to bash Hurney and Rivera and make mountains out of molehills.