What have Rivera and Hurney been up to?

[Darvinsun]

To be honest there is not much to be excited about bc we are entering a yr that Cam is an unknown. This is saddening to me, and I haven't watched much football bc of it. I have always known no matter what Cam would be there to make a difference. This is not the case no matter what we will be looking at a new Cam. Whether he will be in a panthers uniform or not until he retires. I have enjoyed the ups with Cam and hated the downs but really this guy has taken a beaten mentally and physically since entering the league. Even the coach , Ron has had his share in bashing him. When all Cam has ever done is try to win! Now Ron and Hurney. Hurney is 60/40 on his draft to me. I think we may need a better scout team but I can live with him. Ron is a different story. I wished he had been gone in 2013 but it looks like he will stay. I hope he gets it right next yr and he proves me wrong and wins a SB. Cam will be back better than ever and so will this team as whole!

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, t96 said:

And do you think Hurney’s moves this offseason were the reason for our struggles? They were some of the only bright spots. This team had plenty of issues before DG was fired as shown by the sh*tshow that was 2016.

And we were 7-9 with 7 of those losses within one score, despite having a QB with no arm the last 2 months of the season. Not sure how that is on the GM. I blame Rivera for that, though I do acknowledge we probably would’ve had at least 10 wins with a fully healthy Cam.

I think when Marty Hurney is in control of the roster, we lose more games than we win.

I think when Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera control the roster together, we can't even reach 500.

[t96]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think when Marty Hurney is in control of the roster, we lose more games than we win.

I think when Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera control the roster together, we can't even reach 500.

Pretty silly to look at it that simplistically. Hurney has not acted the same as GM in this second go as he did before. 

[Darvinsun]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think when Marty Hurney is in control of the roster, we lose more games than we win.

I think when Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera control the roster together, we can't even reach 500.

If we keep one or the other I vote Hurney I'm just so tired ond Ron that to me he is the lesser evil. With Norv here to help make offensive judgement I think gives him 50% now defense is where we need majority of the help. I'm tired of this dbs playing 10 yrs back. We need to mix some things up on defense. Teams have figured how to beat Riveras defense and it' not hard. Different scheme should mean different types of players on defense. It' quite rare to hit on every draft pick. As long as we don' get CAP screwed again I think Hurney will do Ok.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, t96 said:

Pretty silly to look at it that simplistically. Hurney has not acted the same as GM in this second go as he did before. 

Every year when Hurney was GM before, we had draft picks we were excited about.  Likewise in the years when we signed free agents (there were years we didn't).

By year's end, or in some cases a year later, that excitement had gone down considerably.

Heck, prior to this year, one of the big raves was about how Dontari Poe was going to be a huge upgrade over Star Lotulelei for half the price. That one didn't last long.

You can sit back and analyze individual moves all day.  This was a good draft pick, that was a good signing, this was a decent trade, whatever.  All that ever matters is the overall roster and the final result it brings.

And that's where Hurney - and especially Hurney/Rivera - always seem to fall short.

[thefuzz]

16 minutes ago, t96 said:

And do you think Hurnyey’s moves this offseason were the reason for our struggles? They were some of the only bright spots. This team had plenty of issues before DG was fired as shown by the sh*tshow that was 2016.

And we were 7-9 with 7 of those losses within one score, despite having a QB with no arm the last 2 months of the season. Not sure how that is on the GM. I blame Rivera for that, though I do acknowledge we probably would’ve had at least 10 wins with a fully healthy Cam.

Did we have a quality backup to Cam Newton, who is approaching 30, and has more hits on his body than most QB's with twice his games played, and knowing he was not 100%?  The answer is no, and that is on the GM.

Did we have any pass rush this season, the thing that makes Ron's D work?  No.  That's on the GM.

Do we have a coach at the helm who knows how to manage NFL games, especially in 1 score games?  No.  On the GM.

Did we have a viable outside corner in the case one of our starters went down?  No.

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Darvinsun said:

If we keep one or the other I vote Hurney I'm just so tired ond Ron that to me he is the lesser evil. With Norv here to help make offensive judgement I think gives him 50% now defense is where we need majority of the help. I'm tired of this dbs playing 10 yrs back. We need to mix some things up on defense. Teams have figured how to beat Riveras defense and it' not hard. Different scheme should mean different types of players on defense.

I'm just the opposite honestly, and for a specific reason.

Ron Rivera has worked with two different GMs. When he was paired with Gettleman, his win percentage went up significantly.  He still didn't win a championship, but he won way more than he did otherwise.

On the flipside, Marty Hurney has worked with two different head coaches, and produced similar results.  Both pairings are overall sub 500.

I'd rather keep neither, but if you're picking between two guys who don't work well together, keep the guy who has shown he can be better with somebody else.

That's Rivera.

[Darvinsun]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm just the opposite honestly, and for a specific reason.

Ron Rivera has worked with two different GMs. When he was paired with Gettleman, his win percentage went up significantly.  He still didn't win a championship, but he won way more than he did otherwise.

On the flipside, Marty Hurney has worked with two different head coaches, and produced similar results.  Both pairings are overall sub 500.

I'd rather keep neither, but if you're picking between two guys who don't work well together, keep the guy who has shown he can be better with somebody else.

That's Rivera.

Yea neither are a great option but I have seen more of Ron than I have of Hurney wasn' a close follower until Cam signed, so I am judging from just with Ron. I liked the Panthers prior but I must say I was a Saints fan prior. Now I don' even root for them at all. To be honest about to be done with football all together. It's become more of a headache to watch than enjoyable. After what I have seen being done to Cam I'm falling out of love with it on college level and Pro. Watching only for monetary purposes right now! When Cam hangs it up I probably will too.

 

[t96]

5 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Did we have a quality backup to Cam Newton, who is approaching 30, and has more hits on his body than most QB's with twice his games played, and knowing he was not 100%?  The answer is no, and that is on the GM.

Only about half the teams in the league have quality starters, let alone backups... Dumb argument, any team who loses their starting QB is going to suck except the Eagles 

Did we have any pass rush this season, the thing that makes Ron's D work?  No.  That's on the GM.

Did we have any pass rush before Hurney got here? No and it’s pretty hard to fix every hole here in one off season.

 

Do we have a coach at the helm who knows how to manage NFL games, especially in 1 score games?  No.  On the GM.

Owner hires/fires HC not GM, especially not a GM who wasn’t even hired by the current owner...

 

Did we have a viable outside corner in the case one of our starters went down?  No.

Did we even have two quality starters before this year? No. Did a solid outside corner we signed in the offseason break his leg in TC? Yes. 

 

I’m not a Hurney fan or defender, I wanted him fired as much as anyone largely due to his track record in his first stint and because I’m not convinced he’ll continue to draft as well as he did last year. But that doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge that he did a very solid job in this past offseason.

WR was a big issue that was remedied very well with Moore and Wright (compare the Wright signing to Shepard...). Future at TE was a huge concern and it looks significantly better now with Thomas regardless of what Greg does. CB was a huge issue and Jackson has the making of a stud lockdown #1 corner. Yes there are other holes on the roster that need a lot of help, but it wasn’t all going to happen in one offseason.

This year will tell us a lot more about the ‘new’ Hurney but pretty silly to say he wasn’t solid last offseason.

[t96]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Every year when Hurney was GM before, we had draft picks we were excited about.  Likewise in the years when we signed free agents (there were years we didn't).

By year's end, or in some cases a year later, that excitement had gone down considerably.

Heck, prior to this year, one of the big raves was about how Dontari Poe was going to be a huge upgrade over Star Lotulelei for half the price. That one didn't last long.

You can sit back and analyze individual moves all day.  This was a good draft pick, that was a good signing, this was a decent trade, whatever.  All that ever matters is the overall roster and the final result it brings.

And that's where Hurney - and especially Hurney/Rivera - always seem to fall short.

Hard to put the roster as a whole on Hurney after one offseason of moves... 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, t96 said:

Hard to put the roster as a whole on Hurney after one offseason of moves... 

The roster is on whomever has full control of the offseason.  That's Hurney, though to be more accurate it's Hurney and Rivera.

I know people like to make "Butterfly Effect" type excuses to try and blame everything bad on Gettleman (or give credit to Hurney for Gettleman's rosters winning) but that's a pretty stupid practice.

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, t96 said:

I’m not a Hurney fan or defender, I wanted him fired as much as anyone largely due to his track record in his first stint and because I’m not convinced he’ll continue to draft as well as he did last year. But that doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge that he did a very solid job in this past offseason.

WR was a big issue that was remedied very well with Moore and Wright (compare the Wright signing to Shepard...). Future at TE was a huge concern and it looks significantly better now with Thomas regardless of what Greg does. CB was a huge issue and Jackson has the making of a stud lockdown #1 corner. Yes there are other holes on the roster that need a lot of help, but it wasn’t all going to happen in one offseason.

This year will tell us a lot more about the ‘new’ Hurney but pretty silly to say he wasn’t solid last offseason.

Point 1: 

If you are a suspected playoff team, with a QB who everyone knew was dealing with a shoulder, who is close to 30 and has taken a beating since coming into the league, with a suspect O line, you absolutely HAVE to have a solid backup behind him.

 

Point 2:

We had 47 sacks in 2016.  2nd in the league.

We had 50 sacks in 2017.  3rd in the league.

We had 35 in 2018.  27th in the league.

 

Hurney had an average, at best offseason.  The Panthers had an average at best season.  The good news?  Hurney has only signed a couple stupid extensions so far...so we got that going for us.

 

[Mr. Scot]

One of my big offseason fears is that Turner will convince Hurney to throw good money at Teddy Bridgewater.

I don't want any part of that, but things being what they are...

[thefuzz]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

One of my big offseason fears is that Turner will convince Hurney to throw good money at Teddy Bridgewater.

I don't want any part of that, but things being what they are...

Not a fan of that move, but if it's only a 1 year deal, it won't kill us.

I would prefer Fitz, and just limit his throwing, and have him on a 2 year deal that we can move on from after 1 if needed.

Also wouldn't mind kicking the tires on Chase Daniel, but I'm not sure if the Bears will move on, or if he's willing to play for what he played for this season....4M.