O-line is a bigger need than D-line

[MillionDollarCam]

I don’t see it that way.

Kalil is going to be a huge loss due to his leadership skills and presence in the huddle but Tyler Larsen is an adequate starter.

We have depth that could actually make the OL a strength.

We could easily see something like:

LT: Williams, Clark (re-signed)

LG: Van Roten, Mahon/Hearn/Johnson/Turner

C: Larsen, Draft Pick

RG: Turner, Mahon/Hearn/Johnson/Turner

RT: Moton, Free Agent

- Moton, Turner, and Williams (if re-signed) would be locks

- Clark has been all you could want in a back up and should be re-signed.

- Van Roten has been adequate but we also have some young talent that could push for his job next year in Brendan Mahon, Taylor Hearn, Dorian Johnson, or Landon Turner. Two of these young players could find themselves as the back up’s to Turner and GVR.

- We can go the “Chris Clark” route and sign someone like J’Marcus Webb or Ty Sambrailo to back up Moton. Players who have struggled throughout their careers but have performed decently this year.

- Finally, we can add a center later in the draft (5th round or so), someone like Sam Mustipher. A player who gets knocked for his size and length yet he is about the same size as Kalil.

All in all it’s just a few minor tweaks as where the defensive line needs multiple ends and tackles that are starter material.

[bobcat91]

I believe we could get Elgton Jenkins the Center from Mississippi State in the third. Rated one of the top centers in the draft and let Larsen play guard. Still think our biggest need is a DE

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, GoobyPls said:

Nope I have always said PFF trash, I’m not one of these that uses it when it suits their arguement.

 

You can’t even use stats when grading lineman, it all about the game film itself. And the game film proves Cam is constantly under pressure even when he’s not getting sacked, he never has a pocket to step into, when our line is forced into passing stituations they fold like a cheap lawn chair. Every single time Cam attempted a deep shot he either got sacked or hit. It doesn’t take a retarded formula concocted by a useless site too see it. Keep in mind PFF was made by a bunch of internet sports vloggers

But are you watching game film of every team though?  Actually you would have to watch game film of every player, on every snap, of every game.  For example you would take all-22 film and watch Moton on every play of every snap and assign a grade to each play.  Don't watch the ball, or cam, just him.  Then go and do the same for every other tackle in the league and grade them on the same metrics.  At that point you would actually have an idea of how they compare to everyone else.

What fans do, is just grade players on some random scale that only they expect with no totality of all of the plays or context on how it compares to other players.

PFF isn't some random formula.  It is actually what you are proposing.  Its an eye test applied uniformly across the league in a more thorough way than most fans can do.  Its not based on a few splash plays, but instead all of the snaps.

 

15 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Yep. Amazing how much one play or one game turn people’s opinion on one player. People love Gross and idolize him yet, I can easily find a game against Minnesota where he got beat multiple times for strip sacks including one for a TD. It’s like the legends get thought of in a way that they never made a mistake and current players can’t possibly be good.

Fans tend to think in binary terms with players.  Either the player is good or bad.  Those views are usually based on a few plays here or there or what some random commentator says.  In reality players are just different degrees of good or bad.

A good player might do his job on 94% of his snaps, where as a bad one might be 84%.  Its not that the bad lineman allows pressure on every snap or the good one never allows pressure.

[GoobyPls]

44 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

But are you watching game film of every team though?  Actually you would have to watch game film of every player, on every snap, of every game.  For example you would take all-22 film and watch Moton on every play of every snap and assign a grade to each play.  Don't watch the ball, or cam, just him.  Then go and do the same for every other tackle in the league and grade them on the same metrics.  At that point you would actually have an idea of how they compare to everyone else.

What fans do, is just grade players on some random scale that only they expect with no totality of all of the plays or context on how it compares to other players.

PFF isn't some random formula.  It is actually what you are proposing.  Its an eye test applied uniformly across the league in a more thorough way than most fans can do.  Its not based on a few splash plays, but instead all of the snaps.

 

Fans tend to think in binary terms with players.  Either the player is good or bad.  Those views are usually based on a few plays here or there or what some random commentator says.  In reality players are just different degrees of good or bad.

A good player might do his job on 94% of his snaps, where as a bad one might be 84%.  Its not that the bad lineman allows pressure on every snap or the good one never allows pressure.

Except nobody in PFF watches every snap of every player, and a fan of a team can actually evaluate their own players better than website ran by sport bloggers who maybe watch a tape once over and put a grade on it after watching it that one time. Using a grading that makes no sense 

[GoobyPls]

1 hour ago, MillionDollarCam said:

I don’t see it that way.

Kalil is going to be a huge loss due to his leadership skills and presence in the huddle but Tyler Larsen is an adequate starter.

We have depth that could actually make the OL a strength.

We could easily see something like:

LT: Williams, Clark (re-signed)

LG: Van Roten, Mahon/Hearn/Johnson/Turner

C: Larsen, Draft Pick

RG: Turner, Mahon/Hearn/Johnson/Turner

RT: Moton, Free Agent

- Moton, Turner, and Williams (if re-signed) would be locks

- Clark has been all you could want in a back up and should be re-signed.

- Van Roten has been adequate but we also have some young talent that could push for his job next year in Brendan Mahon, Taylor Hearn, Dorian Johnson, or Landon Turner. Two of these young players could find themselves as the back up’s to Turner and GVR.

- We can go the “Chris Clark” route and sign someone like J’Marcus Webb or Ty Sambrailo to back up Moton. Players who have struggled throughout their careers but have performed decently this year.

- Finally, we can add a center later in the draft (5th round or so), someone like Sam Mustipher. A player who gets knocked for his size and length yet he is about the same size as Kalil.

All in all it’s just a few minor tweaks as where the defensive line needs multiple ends and tackles that are starter material.

If your using Larsen and Van Roten as examples to beef if the line than I’m gonna start using Obada and Horton as reason why we shouldn’t go D-line.

 

 

[Jangler]

welcome to 2018/9. we've been waiting for you.

[Kevin Greene]

7 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

The pass protection is a disaster and has been all season. I say we bring in a big name free agent pass rusher and go o-line in the draft early and often.

 

 

This has been the case since Cam was drafted.

Protecting QB1 has never been a priority.

[Cpt slay a ho]

3 hours ago, Trill OG said:

Everybody saying go after a premier FA, when there isn't many on the market. Besides Clowney who is a premier DE FA this year?

 

I think we find our DE via trade Chandler Jones?

Couple guys that may be available, Clark and ansah, i expect Lawrence and clowney to get the tag and don’t really want ansah for too much due to injuries 

[Jangler]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Greene said:

This has been the case since Cam was drafted.

Protecting QB1 has never been a priority.

it's like thinking Santa Claus was really kissing Mommy.

[ncfan]

7 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

If your using Larsen and Van Roten as examples to beef if the line than I’m gonna start using Obada and Horton as reason why we shouldn’t go D-line.

 

 

Problem is

Those guys aren't even under contract next year unlike van Roten etc.

I agreed Van Roten should be replaced l, but yiu can get a serviceable OG in the 3rd.

 

 

Obada and Horton arent signed.  Only signed DE's out of this Putrid group (we played potentially 2-3 of the worst 5 OL in the League and couldnt sniff the QB). Only ones signed are Addison, and all 235 pounds of Haynes (who couldn't even get activated more than 2-3 games in this terrible rotation) DEs aint cheap either like RTs or OGs

[GoobyPls]

41 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Problem is

Those guys aren't even under contract next year unlike van Roten etc.

I agreed Van Roten should be replaced l, but yiu can get a serviceable OG in the 3rd.

 

 

Obada and Horton arent signed.  Only signed DE's out of this Putrid group (we played potentially 2-3 of the worst 5 OL in the League and couldnt sniff the QB). Only ones signed are Addison, and all 235 pounds of Haynes (who couldn't even get activated more than 2-3 games in this terrible rotation) DEs aint cheap either like RTs or OGs

You can get a sevicable pass rusher in the 3rd round also.... Hardy, Johnson and Addison where all mid round picks.

 

And a good OG isn’t cheap anymore. 

 

Like I said above I want a Clowney or Lawrence than go Center or LT in the first. And yes we can sign a premier pass rusher if the owner is willing

[MillionDollarCam]

8 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

If your using Larsen and Van Roten as examples to beef if the line than I’m gonna start using Obada and Horton as reason why we shouldn’t go D-line.

 

 

You can’t have stars at every position. Larsen has proven to be a solid center and GVR is at the very least average.

We don’t have a single star on the defensivle line, let alone an adequate starter.

Most teams get away with one or two average linemen but the elite teams have elite defensive line’s.

[GoobyPls]

11 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

You can’t have stars at every position. Larsen has proven to be a solid center and GVR is at the very least average.

We don’t have a single star on the defensivle line, let alone an adequate starter.

Most teams get away with one or two average linemen but the elite teams have elite defensive line’s.

The patriots haven’t had an elite D-line in 13 years.

 

Sorry but the d-line doesn’t have the franchise 100 million dollar player behind it. Keep getting your QB killed the d-line won’t matter

[TPanther920]

Cam has had to stand behind tackling dummies from day one. Cam's injuries are a result of bad line play not his willingness to run. Heinicke experienced the beating Cam has been taking first hand yesterday.