O-line is a bigger need than D-line

[rhyslloyd]

Both lines are in shambles, right now. We have one decent tackle, and that’s pretty much it. We don’t know what we’ll get from Daryl if he comes back, Larsen is no Kalil,  and both guards suck. The bad news is that the D line is in worse shape. 

[mc52beast]

2 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Williams and Moton are mediocre, Van Roten and Kalil are horrible 

Pretty sure Moton was ranked #17 at tackle...

wouldnt say that’s just mediocre

[GoobyPls]

42 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

Pretty sure Moton was ranked #17 at tackle...

wouldnt say that’s just mediocre

By who?

[Cdw]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Unless there's just an absolute steal available, the only offensive players who should be on our radar in the first three rounds are OL. I really like our offensive skill position players and we have needs all over the

I agree, and its pretty refreshing to feel like the O dosnt need a total overhaul via the draft for once in a long while 

[JARROD]

Absolutely stack up the best Oline possible. Ours is horrible

[Cpt slay a ho]

Fill as many holes as possible in fa, either go after a premier de if they hit fa or grab a G/C in fa and draft the missing pieces, I’m praying we’re able to fill as many needs as possible in fa so we don’t into the draft drafting for needs and reaching on picks 

[Trill OG]

18 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Fill as many holes as possible in fa, either go after a premier de if they hit fa or grab a G/C in fa and draft the missing pieces, I’m praying we’re able to fill as many needs as possible in fa so we don’t into the draft drafting for needs and reaching on picks 

Everybody saying go after a premier FA, when there isn't many on the market. Besides Clowney who is a premier DE FA this year?

 

I think we find our DE via trade Chandler Jones?

[AU-panther]

3 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Watch film and stop paying attention to Pff, Williams is trash and Moton is mediocre. Starting from center to LG our line is a disaster. Larsen is a jag that won’t make a 53 man roster on another franchise 

But are you watching film of every tackle in the league on every snap?  I doubt anyone around here is.

This is what fans don't really understand about PFF, its really not a stat driven grading system.  It is an eye test that they try to apply uniformly to every player in the league and then they assign a grade to them so you can see how they compare relative to everyone else.

The average fan judges players on some individual standard based off of a hand full plays and then they don't apply context to how that compares to other players.

Fan sees player give a sack and fan thinks player is "trash". PFF sees every sack and every pressure given up by every lineman in the league.  PFF thinks player is a lot better than "trash" because they relize that player does a better job than 80% of the league.

Is PFF perfect?  Of course not, I doubt they have access to all of the play calls.  Will that cause of them to be wrong sometimes?  Of course it will, but if they apply it the same to everyone it should affect everyone the same.

And for the people that bash it, I would love to hear of something better that we have as fans.  Most people around here don't like PFF when it doesn't line up to what they want to believe.  

With all that being said I agree that we could use some help on the O-line.  I said in another thread I'll never be too upset if we draft a quality tackle prospect in the first round, just because of how valuable they are and how hard they are to find.  With some of other needs this year I'm not sure we will use a first round pick on a guard or center.  They tend to fall a bit in the draft and often their is good value in a mid round. 

[Krovvy]

15 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

But are you watching film of every tackle in the league on every snap?  I doubt anyone around here is.

This is what fans don't really understand about PFF, its really not a stat driven grading system.  It is an eye test that they try to apply uniformly to every player in the league and then they assign a grade to them so you can see how they compare relative to everyone else.

The average fan judges players on some individual standard based off of a hand full plays and then they don't apply context to how that compares to other players.

Fan sees player give a sack and fan thinks player is "trash". PFF sees every sack and every pressure given up by every lineman in the league.  PFF thinks player is a lot better than "trash" because they relize that player does a better job than 80% of the league.

Is PFF perfect?  Of course not, I doubt they have access to all of the play calls.  Will that cause of them to be wrong sometimes?  Of course it will, but if they apply it the same to everyone it should affect everyone the same.

And for the people that bash it, I would love to hear of something better that we have as fans.  Most people around here don't like PFF when it doesn't line up to what they want to believe.  

With all that being said I agree that we could use some help on the O-line.  I said in another thread I'll never be too upset if we draft a quality tackle prospect in the first round, just because of how valuable they are and how hard they are to find.  With some of other needs this year I'm not sure we will use a first round pick on a guard or center.  They tend to fall a bit in the draft and often their is good value in a mid round. 

Didn't Ryan Kalil say that PFF does a terrible job grading offensive lineman because they have no way of knowing their assignments, or even the scheme they're running for a play?

[GoobyPls]

43 minutes ago, Trill OG said:

Everybody saying go after a premier FA, when there isn't many on the market. Besides Clowney who is a premier DE FA this year?

 

I think we find our DE via trade Chandler Jones?

Demarcus Lawrence 

[GoobyPls]

38 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

But are you watching film of every tackle in the league on every snap?  I doubt anyone around here is.

This is what fans don't really understand about PFF, its really not a stat driven grading system.  It is an eye test that they try to apply uniformly to every player in the league and then they assign a grade to them so you can see how they compare relative to everyone else.

The average fan judges players on some individual standard based off of a hand full plays and then they don't apply context to how that compares to other players.

Fan sees player give a sack and fan thinks player is "trash". PFF sees every sack and every pressure given up by every lineman in the league.  PFF thinks player is a lot better than "trash" because they relize that player does a better job than 80% of the league.

Is PFF perfect?  Of course not, I doubt they have access to all of the play calls.  Will that cause of them to be wrong sometimes?  Of course it will, but if they apply it the same to everyone it should affect everyone the same.

And for the people that bash it, I would love to hear of something better that we have as fans.  Most people around here don't like PFF when it doesn't line up to what they want to believe.  

With all that being said I agree that we could use some help on the O-line.  I said in another thread I'll never be too upset if we draft a quality tackle prospect in the first round, just because of how valuable they are and how hard they are to find.  With some of other needs this year I'm not sure we will use a first round pick on a guard or center.  They tend to fall a bit in the draft and often their is good value in a mid round. 

Nope I have always said PFF trash, I’m not one of these that uses it when it suits their arguement.

 

You can’t even use stats when grading lineman, it all about the game film itself. And the game film proves Cam is constantly under pressure even when he’s not getting sacked, he never has a pocket to step into, when our line is forced into passing stituations they fold like a cheap lawn chair. Every single time Cam attempted a deep shot he either got sacked or hit. It doesn’t take a retarded formula concocted by a useless site too see it. Keep in mind PFF was made by a bunch of internet sports vloggers

[GoPanthers123]

Of course OL has massive holes, which is how Cam is running for his life almost every game and was injured.

[AU-panther]

32 minutes ago, Krovvy said:

Didn't Ryan Kalil say that PFF does a terrible job grading offensive lineman because they have no way of knowing their assignments, or even the scheme they're running for a play?

Probably, and it is a valid point and I alluded to it in my earlier msg.

Fans don't know the assignments either.  The difference with PFF is they are at least watching every lineman, on every play, of every game.  Fans for the most part watch the ball.  They notice when really good things happen (a pancake block downfield) or bad things happen (a sack given up).  They aren't sitting there grading the other 95% of plays.

Also if they are using a uniform grading system and applying it equally the "mistakes caused by not knowing the assignments" should equalize among all the players over time.  What you are left with is metrics you are sure about.  If a player gets pushed back into his QB chances are that was his fault and can easily be grades.

The only people who can "perfectly" grade a player are their own coaches since they know the play calls.   Even if all the teams made those grades public it still wouldn't tell you how good a player was relative to their peers unless all the teams used the same grading system.

People love to bash PFF but I have yet to hear anyone explain a better system.  

 

 

[pantherj]

The most astonishing thing I've seen on the Huddle, since that time most fans didn't want to draft Cam, is the resistance to rebuilding the o-line with our draft picks. I think we could watch one of our QBs hit so many times that he ends up in a coma, and fans would still say "but we have (insert poop offensive linemen's names here) so we should be fine." WE'RE NOT FINE!!!!!!!!!! THE O-LINE IS SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!