If Shaq is gone 2019, LB in draft or FA

[Bronn]

12 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

We need one of the huddle statisticians like @KB_fanto do an actual analysis of how Shaq's performed in TD's role cuz our eyeball tests ain't working. Half the board thinks Shaq can't easily be replaced and the other half think he outright sucks.

If you want just raw stats, you can look at the other OLBs drafted around him.
http://pfref.com/tiny/h1rUA

Granted, they all play in different systems and with different players, but Shaq looks to be at least 2nd or 3rd best in the grouping.

[Raleigh PF]

25 minutes ago, Bronn said:

If you want just raw stats, you can look at the other OLBs drafted around him.
http://pfref.com/tiny/h1rUA

Granted, they all play in different systems and with different players, but Shaq looks to be at least 2nd or 3rd best in the grouping.

He is a gifted athlete. Sometimes gifted athletes do not make good football players. My eye test tells me Shaq is below average in run coverage, average in pass coverage and is prone to mental lapses. That may make him the best of his class or 28th best in the league, but I don't see him as earning a $9M+ paycheck next year. 

Some have said he could sign for much less. Well, if Shaq has a decent agent, he really has no reason to sign for much less. The Panthers picked up his option, so unless they cut him, they are on the hook for the $9M+. If the Panthers cut him, then another team can pick him up and marvel at the athlete that he is. If they extend him, I doubt he agrees to an extension for less than $7M per year and that may be low-balling.

Something else to consider. IF the Panthers re-sign Eric Reid, he could likely fill some of the tasks given to Thompson and I doubt Reid would cost half of what Thompson would.

So, no thanks on Thompson. Let's see what the other two LBs have.

[Bronn]

8 minutes ago, Raleigh PF said:

He is a gifted athlete. Sometimes gifted athletes do not make good football players. My eye test tells me Shaq is below average in run coverage, average in pass coverage and is prone to mental lapses. That may make him the best of his class or 28th best in the league, but I don't see him as earning a $9M+ paycheck next year. 

Some have said he could sign for much less. Well, if Shaq has a decent agent, he really has no reason to sign for much less. The Panthers picked up his option, so unless they cut him, they are on the hook for the $9M+. If the Panthers cut him, then another team can pick him up and marvel at the athlete that he is. If they extend him, I doubt he agrees to an extension for less than $7M per year and that may be low-balling.

Something else to consider. IF the Panthers re-sign Eric Reid, he could likely fill some of the tasks given to Thompson and I doubt Reid would cost half of what Thompson would.

So, no thanks on Thompson. Let's see what the other two LBs have.

I think we can renegotiate a new deal and basically rescind his 5th year option. He could get a contract with guarantees for 4-5 years, that averaged about $8-10 Mil per year over the course, with a number closer to $6 Mil in the first year and some sort of bonus that doesn't count against the cap as bad. Unless we are prepared to absolutely draft another starting caliber LB in the draft, you're going to pay that much for an adequate replacement anyways.

Shaq is much like TD in that he had experience at Safety and is still learning the nuances of the positions we've put him in. He's a starter caliber player, and we don't have a ready answer waiting for us for letting him walk.

TD coming back or not makes the situation even more dire. I'd much rather let TD walk/retire and keep Shaq to fill his spot than cut ties with Shaq and keep TD.

[panther4life]

13 hours ago, ncfan said:

Just to give you an example

AJ Klein is making 6 mil a year

He is graded out lower than Shaq this season

We wont be able to extend him for under 5.  But im sure we'll get a resign with the home team deal.  We let Klein walk and hit the market because we already had Luke, TD, and Shaq 

Again

We let him walk

We wont be able to afford a upgrade

Was just coming to post Klein’s contract to give everyone some perspective. 

I don’t know if Shaq is worth the 9.2 Million cap hit he’s schduled for next year tho. A tough decision looms ahead for sure.

Looking at other free agent LB’s not sure we can find a better value than Shaq. Anthony Barr and K.J Wright are set to hit the market if not retained by their current teams. Both are probably set for much bigger pay days than Shaq is.

Derrick a Morgan and Orakpo are also scheduled for free agency as well but both are 32.

[Bronn]

Also, aside from TD, we're likely to lose Mayo, potentially Norris, and Jacobs to free agency. That would leave Luke, Carter, and Smith as the only LBs on the roster if we don't keep Shaq.

I'm already thinking we draft an LB very early in the draft, sign a FA one to start one one side, and maybe even draft a second one later on.

A lot of people have been down on Luke this year. I'm not really one of them.

I want to see what Carter and Smith can do, too, but I'm not ready to dig a deeper hole by cutting ties with Shaq.

Now, I agree he isn't worth the $9+ Mil he's due. That's why we need to start talking to him and his agent now, before the start of the new league year, to get an extension in place that drops that number next year. Otherwise, we'll likely have to outright cut him, and that isn't a smart move.

[Bronn]

1 minute ago, panther4life said:

Was just coming to post Klein’s contract to give everyone some perspective. 

I don’t know if Shaq is worth the 9.2 Million cap hit he’s schduled for next year tho. A tough decision looms ahead for sure.

Looking at other free agent LB’s not sure we can find a better value than Shaq. Anthony Barr and K.J Wright are set to hit the market if not retained by their current teams. Both are probably set for much bigger pay days than Shaq is.

Derrick a Morgan and Orakpo are also scheduled for free agency as well but both are 32.

Za'Darius Smith is my target.

[RealBitsOfPanther]

Another thing to keep in mind as well. Are yall willing to use a higher draft pick on a LB when we have much dire needs at other positions? Keep Shaq, let TD walk (unless its on a very friendly deal), draft/sign a legit nickel corner. Bring in one of the rookies in for when we run base defense. 

[panther4life]

2 minutes ago, Bronn said:

Za'Darius Smith is my target.

I’m not really familiar with him. What makes the situation so complicated is we will either have to cut Shaq, extend him or let the 5th year option ride before we can even entertain the idea of replacing him via free agency or the draft.

[Raleigh PF]

6 minutes ago, Bronn said:

Also, aside from TD, we're likely to lose Mayo, potentially Norris, and Jacobs to free agency. That would leave Luke, Carter, and Smith as the only LBs on the roster if we don't keep Shaq.

I'm already thinking we draft an LB very early in the draft, sign a FA one to start one one side, and maybe even draft a second one later on.

A lot of people have been down on Luke this year. I'm not really one of them.

I want to see what Carter and Smith can do, too, but I'm not ready to dig a deeper hole by cutting ties with Shaq.

Now, I agree he isn't worth the $9+ Mil he's due. That's why we need to start talking to him and his agent now, before the start of the new league year, to get an extension in place that drops that number next year. Otherwise, we'll likely have to outright cut him, and that isn't a smart move.

I think we mostly agree, but I'm willing to re-sign TD to a one-year deal, IF the situation with Thompson cannot be resolved in the Panther's favor. I don't think it's fair to equate Thompson to TD, as I believe TD's football acumen is much greater than Shaq's potential. IMO, we haven't found the replacement we are looking for.

We should certainly see what his agent has in mind, if we sign a short extension. There is no indication, nor is there any reason to expect Thompson would provide a "hometown discount", particularly considering his hometown is in California. 

[top dawg]

16 hours ago, Piff said:

This team would be crazy to cut Shaq. He has been solid and nowhere near as bad as some people on here make him out to be. Let's not forget he was a converted safety/RB in college playing linebacker. For a player who came in the league with a steep learning curve he has done well. Not great yet but he is not the reason the team is losing games.

This team would be crazy to keep Shaq. He has been shaky and nowhere near as good as some people on here make him out to be. Let's not forget he was a converted safety/RB in college playing linebacker, and it shows. For a player who came in the league with a steep learning curve he has done decidedly average. Not great yet but he will never be a reason the team wins games.

[ncfan]

19 minutes ago, Bronn said:

Za'Darius Smith is my target.

Dudes the 3-4 OLB, edge rusher

 

He is Suggs backup.

Suggs may be gone from there next year, so they may keep him.

 

And we're not replacing a TD/Shaq with a guy who would be a Mario Addison or DE in our defense 

[ncfan]

17 minutes ago, top dawg said:

This team would be crazy to keep Shaq. He has been shaky and nowhere near as good as some people on here make him out to be. Let's not forget he was a converted safety/RB in college playing linebacker, and it shows. For a player who came in the league with a steep learning curve he has done decidedly average. Not great yet but he will never be a reason the team wins games.

1. He isnt a superstar, but has been solid.  Once TD is gone and he is full time in that role im fully trust he'll be above avg.  People have short memory but #58 was a converted Safety and never really blew up until Beason left and he slid into that role

2. Only way we're upgrading is drafting in rounds 1-2. He's graded out and played better than Klein who is making 6 mil a year.  We are in NO position to be drafting a LB rounds 1-2. Funny seeing people say  "well Carter will be able to replace him, he's looked good in Camp and Preseason".  So you want to replace a guy who's been a camp MVP/good preseason player the last 2 season's for a 5th round guy who looked good in camp?

3. Its easy to say extend TD to fill the gap.  But what TD are we going to get.  Again, how short memory we have around here.  This time Just Last Year.  People were here complaining making threads etc that father time caught up with him.  He was looking pretty pedestrian, very similar to Mike Adams now.  He's had a Good season this year, but is this just one last push after he initially announced this was going to be his last year.

 

 

Look he isnt going to be a Beason or TD.  He still may become a stud.  But with the hole we have right now.  I'll be estatic with atleast another Will Witherspoon next to Luke which is what Shaq is now

[Bronn]

17 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Dudes the 3-4 OLB, edge rusher

 

He is Suggs backup.

Suggs may be gone from there next year, so they may keep him.

 

And we're not replacing a TD/Shaq with a guy who would be a Mario Addison or DE in our defense 

He could be okay in a 4-3, IMHO, though and spell at DE in some packages.

Part of Shaq's weaknesses, at least to me, are related to us not really utilizing him correctly. Smith we could put in a more of an Edge type role and make use of his pass rushing skill, but I think he has the raw coverage/run support ability to make up for his lack of prototypical OLB skills.

There are a lot of FA options out there, and I'm already leaning on an early LB in the draft, so my love for Smith might be moot at this point.

[ncfan]

4 minutes ago, Bronn said:

He could be okay in a 4-3, IMHO, though and spell at DE in some packages.

Part of Shaq's weaknesses, at least to me, are related to us not really utilizing him correctly. Smith we could put in a more of an Edge type role and make use of his pass rushing skill, but I think he has the raw coverage/run support ability to make up for his lack of prototypical OLB skills.

There are a lot of FA options out there, and I'm already leaning on an early LB in the draft, so my love for Smith might be moot at this point.

The guy is a Mario Addison clone.

Part of Shaqs duties and we criticize him for is covering slot WRs.  No Way No How do I want a 3-4 OLB Addsion clone covering there.