Why Cam Newton's arm isn't done and how to fix next year

[Khyber53]

Hindsight is 20/20. Going back to pre-season, Cam hasn't been making any long throws and our coaching staff has known that he was going to be limited. They never said anything about it because, well, why would you tell the rest of the league "Our star QB can't accurately throw the ball more than 15 yards and won't be a threat to run on every down this year?"  Especially when we start having injury after injury on our offensive line. 

Instead, some very smart coaching went into creating enough smoke and mirrors for us to grind out six wins. The threat of the long ball from Cam AND his ability to run actually take a bit of pressure off of the O-line. In the meantime, Norv dials up an inordinate amount of misdirection plays and we talk about Cam's new focus on taking the check down and short passing game. CMC, Moore and Samuel begin to shine, partly because of their great skill sets and partly because that's all we can rely on in the passing game for short, underneath passes.

In the meantime, everyone is screaming about how our WRs suck and that neither Funchess nor Smith are worth a darn and can't get any separation. They aren't capable of stretching the field people shouted. Now, in hindsight, it seems that much of the route running they did was just decoy work. It didn't stretch the field much, but it kept defenses honest with their safeties, giving CMC some room to work. 

As the season went on, and Cam took more hits and ran less, I think all but the worst teams figured out that he was just a shadow of himself. The Cam that could literally flip a game with a single run or long bomb just wasn't there. His shoulder couldn't answer the bell. And I am sure if we watched the tape closely enough, we can probably catch a hand signal or something that would tell the OC when he could or couldn't execute a play and that they would have to switch to an alternate one. Maybe a head bob, or something like turning to the endzone while hearing the play would let them know. That might explain some of the slow getting to the line. 

I think the first team to really figure it out was Pittsburgh. Their defense attacked our line and disregarded the long range passing game. They hit him and slammed him, they basically forced our offense off the field time and time again. Couple that with our horrible defensive play calling and it was a rout. They basically pulled back the curtain and even teams like Detroit and Cleveland could have their way with us. 

None of us knew this going into the season because we might have been looking at a 2-14 season had everyone known. Coaching did a lot for us (and Rivera's defensive play calling certainly has been an improvement over Washington's_). The emergence of CMC has done a lot and our O-line was strangely enough, better than last season's. And Cam has been brave and fought hard for every victory. 

The wear and tear have just been too much, both on Cam and on the rest of the team. I don't think Olsen was ever fully healed, either and that may have been a bigger issue than any of us knew. How many games was the most reliable receiver out there only capable of half of what he used to provide?

And now we sit, listening to Coach Rivera say that Cam is still penciled in as the starter this coming week. He's doing it because it is the smart thing to do. Atlanta has to prepare to face Cam, whether that ends up being the case or not. It's the only card Riverboat Ron still has stashed in his vest. He's been dealt bad hands all season and he's played as smart as he could with the cards he has, now, it's just an effort to break even before the game is called.

I hope Cam will regain some of his ability in the off season. The guy is just a phenomenal player and talent. It would just hurt to see a young man sidelined this early in his career and to not have those incredible runs, that winning spirit and that laser cannon arm not winning games for us.

But that's next season, something to hope for. This season's all but done and deserving of a bit of insight and understanding.

[RealBitsOfPanther]

In all honesty, Cam's deep ball has been poo since his shoulder surgery anyway. We haven't seen him throw a dime half way down the field since 2015. 

[coralreefer_1]

On 12/18/2018 at 9:33 PM, Snake said:

 

2) The second problem comes from his inability to step up and drive through on his throws. It's well known in the locker room that Van Roten isn't great and Kalil one and two are both done. Ones probably retiring and the other has it on his mind. 

 

This for me is the best and brightest spot of this thread.  My god let that man be decent and retire. If R. Kalil is any kind of Panther, he will know how fugged this team is with his brothers contract..and more or less force his little bro to retire!!!!!

[thefuzz]

23 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Hindsight is 20/20. Going back to pre-season, Cam hasn't been making any long throws and our coaching staff has known that he was going to be limited. They never said anything about it because, well, why would you tell the rest of the league "Our star QB can't accurately throw the ball more than 15 yards and won't be a threat to run on every down this year?"  Especially when we start having injury after injury on our offensive line. 

Instead, some very smart coaching went into creating enough smoke and mirrors for us to grind out six wins. The threat of the long ball from Cam AND his ability to run actually take a bit of pressure off of the O-line. In the meantime, Norv dials up an inordinate amount of misdirection plays and we talk about Cam's new focus on taking the check down and short passing game. CMC, Moore and Samuel begin to shine, partly because of their great skill sets and partly because that's all we can rely on in the passing game for short, underneath passes.

In the meantime, everyone is screaming about how our WRs suck and that neither Funchess nor Smith are worth a darn and can't get any separation. They aren't capable of stretching the field people shouted. Now, in hindsight, it seems that much of the route running they did was just decoy work. It didn't stretch the field much, but it kept defenses honest with their safeties, giving CMC some room to work. 

As the season went on, and Cam took more hits and ran less, I think all but the worst teams figured out that he was just a shadow of himself. The Cam that could literally flip a game with a single run or long bomb just wasn't there. His shoulder couldn't answer the bell. And I am sure if we watched the tape closely enough, we can probably catch a hand signal or something that would tell the OC when he could or couldn't execute a play and that they would have to switch to an alternate one. Maybe a head bob, or something like turning to the endzone while hearing the play would let them know. That might explain some of the slow getting to the line. 

I think the first team to really figure it out was Pittsburgh. Their defense attacked our line and disregarded the long range passing game. They hit him and slammed him, they basically forced our offense off the field time and time again. Couple that with our horrible defensive play calling and it was a rout. They basically pulled back the curtain and even teams like Detroit and Cleveland could have their way with us. 

None of us knew this going into the season because we might have been looking at a 2-14 season had everyone known. Coaching did a lot for us (and Rivera's defensive play calling certainly has been an improvement over Washington's_). The emergence of CMC has done a lot and our O-line was strangely enough, better than last season's. And Cam has been brave and fought hard for every victory. 

The wear and tear have just been too much, both on Cam and on the rest of the team. I don't think Olsen was ever fully healed, either and that may have been a bigger issue than any of us knew. How many games was the most reliable receiver out there only capable of half of what he used to provide?

And now we sit, listening to Coach Rivera say that Cam is still penciled in as the starter this coming week. He's doing it because it is the smart thing to do. Atlanta has to prepare to face Cam, whether that ends up being the case or not. It's the only card Riverboat Ron still has stashed in his vest. He's been dealt bad hands all season and he's played as smart as he could with the cards he has, now, it's just an effort to break even before the game is called.

I hope Cam will regain some of his ability in the off season. The guy is just a phenomenal player and talent. It would just hurt to see a young man sidelined this early in his career and to not have those incredible runs, that winning spirit and that laser cannon arm not winning games for us.

But that's next season, something to hope for. This season's all but done and deserving of a bit of insight and understanding.

This is precisely how I feel about the entire situation.

 

[Navy_football]

1 hour ago, countryboi said:

i think he is not saying anything we didnt already kinda know but it still goes back to the point that Ron needs to protect Cam from himself. Non of these issues are going to fix themselves this season. I think other than his loyally issue i think Rons biggest flaw is that he doesn't protect Cam from himself, this is the second time he has been clearly hurt and the team didnt shut him down. 

In this case though, it was becoming blaringly obvious that Cam couldn't even make basic throws, let alone the throws we're accustomed to seeing from him. Managing pain is one thing, but when a coordinator has to adjust playcalling because of your limitations, then you need to come out of the game. 

There's no way any rational person could determine that Cam gave/gives the team its best chance to win. 

[Porn Shop Clerk]

Our OL has as much to do with Cam's frame of mind right now as his shoulder.  Possibly more.  I wouldn't want to take anymore shots behind that garbage either.

[grimesgoat]

I won't quote it, Khyber nailed it.  My thoughts exactly.

[Lumps]

I don't blame came for going the therapy route, there's more to life than football to chance a surgery this young.

That said, the choice is to spend time to see and if it heals, but then never be sure it's going to come back OR spend that time on a new prospect. 

I don't think there is a wrong move as this point but hindsight can be a bitch.

[LinvilleGorge]

I will be SHOCKED if Matt Kalil retires. He'd be leaving a lot of money on the table. I fully expect him to force us to cut him so that he can get his money.

[TheRed]

23 minutes ago, Porn Shop Clerk said:

Our OL has as much to do with Cam's frame of mind right now as his shoulder.  Possibly more.  I wouldn't want to take anymore shots behind that garbage either.

Meanwhile the beer gut slobs in this fanbase show up to scream about how Cam needs to step up into the pocket lol.

[Icege]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Kalil should be cut this year. Why pay him another dime? Make him a post June 1st and the 9.8m is still the same dead cap in 2020 but we save $7m in cap in 2019. He’s a waste and useless. Marshall Newhouse and Clark performed the same for much less. While dead cap has this huge meaning here, cutting him after this year nets us $7.25m in savings this year and $6.1m next year. Your plan keeps Kalil in the roster and costs us $7.25m in cap space in 2019 and saves $6.1m in 2020. I’d rather have Newhouse and $6m extra in 2019.

Short is similar. If we get a stud in the draft, I wouldn’t be mad about moving on and saving a ton of cap space. I’d rather have Simmons, Butler, Love and Poe and $23m in net cap savings the next two years. Yep, even with dead cap, we could save $23m in cap space in 2019/2020 without Short. He’s been good this year, better than some think, but he sure as shut ain’t worth $35m in cap the next two years as he keeps declining.

If we go DT early in draft, we could have $20m extra in 2019 cap (around $60m total space with Smith/Searcy added in and rollover) and $16m extra in 2020. Anyone want to make a run at Clowney and Mathieu?

Going off of Spotrac numbers here and I could very well be not understanding, but a post 6/1/19 cut would save $7.25M in 2019 but at the expense of an additional $9.8M in dead cap space for 2020 (along with the still $4.9M in dead cap we would carry from him in 2019). I would be okay with carrying the bloat for one more season simply to have tackle depth should Moton or Williams get hurt, but I don't trust the current staff to not start Kalil. 

Should the team not find a trade partner for him, he could ride the pine (again, doubtful with the current staff) and be a post 6/1/20 cut to have $4.9M in dead cap and cap savings for the season and creating $11M in savings for the following season.

My thinking here is that should we gamble on a trade partner and lose, we end up with only $4.9M in total dead cap rather than more than triple that at $14.9M while also saving $11M rather than $7.25M. We've got about $23M in cap space with 36 players remaining under contract while we have 27 players under contract and $44M in cap space for the following season. Cutting Kalil (or him retiring) now would give us $33M w/ 26 players under contract in 2020 w/ $30M in space and 35 players under contract for 2019. I like the idea of cutting Torrey Smith ($5M), Munnerlyn ($2.5M), maybe Cockrell ($2M?), and restructuring Addison to get the team the $11M in savings this coming season with the chance of outright ridding ourselves entirely of Kalil to another team.

If we got DT, I would prefer that it be an NT. Short has not had a great season by any means, and Butler is booboo, but Kyle Love likely isn't coming back which leaves just Dontari Poe and Kendrick Norton. I could deal with Backup Butler for another season, but I don't want that 5th yr option, no ty. I'm wondering that if we had better edge rushers if that would allow Short to play up to the level of his contract. I hadn't looked at it before you mentioned it, but I'm pretty impressed at the flexibility the team has with it.

What do you think about Addison's contract? Any ideas there? I'm not even sure what the results of a potential restructure would be. I'm still trying to understand the finer details better.

[electro's horse]

12 hours ago, Snake said:

 

1) Is his Sholder in need of surgery or is he done. Well that's a tricky question and my friend had this to say. Medically Newton is dealing with scar tissue and there are two choices. Go in and clean it out or try to loosen it by time and training. From my friends point of view it's a hard decision because surgery could lead to more tissue build up or more range depending on how his body responds. While therapy could permanently solve the problem but take more time. Either way Newton isn't Hurt per say it's just he hasn't fully healed.

This is inaccurate. 

[Captain Obvious]

 

looks like it will be him

[Snake]

8 hours ago, Porn Shop Clerk said:

Sounds to me like if they'd shut him down early in 2016 and he'd had the surgery then, he would be much further along in rehabilitating his shoulder.

Really just depends on the body. Probably taking shots after the surgery and Shula using him as his main running back in 17 didn't help.