Matt Kahlil fuged this team hard

[CRA]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Yet we won more games with him in charge than at any other time in team history.

Funny thing about football: Wins and losses actually count. Analyses of free agent moves don't.

yeah, we won more games in a window where Hurney picks matured into there primes and carried the team. 

I mean Dave did some good.  I can find it in that win streak.  But Dave didn't do a lot of good in terms of setting us up well in the future IMO with the team he was putting together.   Dave just did some band-aids and hole patching to Hurney's roster.   

As far as the blue print that remains from Dave? He got us a RB to build around.  While he is awesome....look at the Steelers.  You can have the most awesome RB in the NFL....and if your overall offense is good you can insert the back and the backups backup often and  things pretty much work not that much different. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, we won more games in a window where Hurney picks matured into there primes and carried the team. 

I mean Dave did some good.  I can find it in that win streak.  But Dave didn't do a lot of good in terms of setting us up well in the future IMO with the team he was putting together.   Dave just did some band-aids and hole patching to Hurney's roster.   

As far as the blue print that remains from Dave? He got us a RB to build around.  While he is awesome....look at the Steelers.  You can have the most awesome RB in the NFL....and if your overall offense is good you can insert the back and the backups backup often and  things pretty much work not that much different. 

The whole "Gettleman won because of Hurney" is one of the stupidest takes on this board.

You build a complete roster, not a partial one.

[trueblade]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yet we won more games with him in charge than at any other time in team history.

Those also happened to be the years where Cam and Luke had developed as players (Cam's 3rd year, Luke's 2nd) and where they were the most healthy. Is it possible this had a larger impact on the won/loss than who sat in the GM chair?

If Gettlemen alone was the main factor, we have to account for the anomaly of Gettlemen's team going from 15-1 to 6-10. Same GM, so why not the same success? Perhaps, there's another factor like Cam hurting his shoulder and Luke missing the final six games with a concussion. 

Let's spin it forward. Cam and Luke were healthy again in 2017, we go 11-5. Cam is hurt again this year and we'll end up what 7-9? 6-10?

[CRA]

37 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

You can, but I won't.

Signing Cam to a "team friendly" deal was huge.  Drafting and/or bringing in Moton, Oher, Norwell, Turner, Williams, etc...was fantastic.  Fixed the DT problem that had been killing us for years, while finding a way to field an offense that took us to a 15-1 season, and a trip to the big game.

He wasn't perfect, but outside of the very strange (see absurd) contracts to Kalil and Captain, did very little to put us in a hole long term.

bandaids are bandaids.  I'm not talking about them.  I'm talking long term.   Gettlemen inherited a team that was built by Hurney.  A long list of long term fixtures this franchise could depend on. What did Gettlemen build big picture? 

Lot of those boxes you are checking are still just hopefuls as well. 

I still argue that Gettlemen did little for the big picture of this franchise.  Too much concentration on filled positions with high picks was a big failure.  That really hurt us IMO.   That bad carries a lot of weight with me. 

[PanthersBigD]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The whole "Gettleman won because of Hurney" is one of the stupidest takes on this board.

You build a complete roster, not a partial one.

Nothing happens as a result of one off season. Don't make it sound like the team's success was wholly due to Gettleman's management; it wasn't. He did some really good things(FA acquisitions, signing Cam long term), and some REALLY bad things(Kalil, Captain, withdrawing the tag from Norman, drafting sub par luxury players with high picks in multiple years). The good things are wearing off quicker than the bad things. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, PanthersBigD said:

Nothing happens as a result of one off season. Don't make it sound like the team's success was wholly due to Gettleman's management; it wasn't. He did some really good things(FA acquisitions, signing Cam long term), and some REALLY bad things(Kalil, Captain, withdrawing the tag from Norman, drafting sub par luxury players with high picks in multiple years). The good things are wearing off quicker than the bad things. 

Yeah, that McCaffrey guy has been useless so far. Don't know what he was thinking with Samuel or Moton either 

No team's success or failure is from a single factor, but the GM and the head coach will always be the ones that get the most credit, or the most blame, because they have the most influence.

[Mr. Scot]

23 minutes ago, trueblade said:

Those also happened to be the years where Cam and Luke had developed as players (Cam's 3rd year, Luke's 2nd) and where they were the most healthy. Is it possible this had a larger impact on the won/loss than who sat in the GM chair?

If Gettlemen alone was the main factor, we have to account for the anomaly of Gettlemen's team going from 15-1 to 6-10. Same GM, so why not the same success? Perhaps, there's another factor like Cam hurting his shoulder and Luke missing the final six games with a concussion. 

Let's spin it forward. Cam and Luke were healthy again in 2017, we go 11-5. Cam is hurt again this year and we'll end up what 7-9? 6-10?

See above.

Once you take full control of a roster, you own the results. Sometimes you're handed a good product, sometimes not. Either way, you have to work with what there is, know who to keep, and know whom to let go to build the roster that you want.

Mentioned it before. Someone prior to this year asked me to state for the record that Marty Hurney got full credit for whatever this year's results were. I said yes because that's how it works, but I think they were expecting a Super Bowl or at least a playoff team so that particular tactic kind of backfired on them.

[PanthersBigD]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah, that McCaffrey guy has been useless so far. Don't know what he was thinking with Samuel or Moton either 

No team's success or failure is from a single factor, but the GM and the head coach will always be the ones that get the most credit, or the most blame, because they have the most influence.

He also picked Butler, Benjamin, Sanchez, Worley, Shaq. We get it, you don't like Marty Hurney. That point of view is shared by most of us. Still, Gettleman's legacy has not been a good one. He basically left us in the same situation as Hurney did when he was fired, except in that case, at least DeAngelo and Stewart were actually playing meaningful snaps for us while we paid them each the GDP of small countries. 

We need to go in a different direction than a Gettleman or a Hurney. I hope to god that Tepper has some good options in mind. 

[beastson]

If we cut him post june 1st

Still 5 mil in dead, 8 in savings

Draft LT in the 1st round. Hopefully we lost the next 2, get a top 10 pick

[Manther]

Some want to put this all on DG....he was duped, but Matt and Ryan lied about Matt's health.  DG may have been incompetent by Matt's a douche...fuger.

 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, PanthersBigD said:

He also picked Butler, Benjamin, Sanchez, Worley, Shaq. We get it, you don't like Marty Hurney. That point of view is shared by most of us. Still, Gettleman's legacy has not been a good one. He basically left us in the same situation as Hurney did when he was fired, except in that case, at least DeAngelo and Stewart were actually playing meaningful snaps for us while we paid them each the GDP of small countries. 

We need to go in a different direction than a Gettleman or a Hurney. I hope to god that Tepper has some good options in mind. 

Same situation?

We were 14 million over the cap when Gettleman took over and finished the season with a losing record.

Gettleman left Hurney a team that went 11-5, made the playoffs, had cap space and added one of the best defensive weapons this team has ever seen.

A year later, we're set to have one of the worst collapses in history.

Gettleman isn't coming back. Hurney shouldn't be.

[kungfoodude]

56 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yet we won more games with him in charge than at any other time in team history.

Funny thing about football: Wins and losses actually count. Analyses of free agent moves don't.

So David Gettleman is one of the worst Giants GM's in recent memory?

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

So David Gettleman is one of the worst Giants GM's in recent memory?

If you want to compare performances, Gettleman started off with a team that was the second worst in the league last season. A year later, they had a lousy season but still improved their record.

Hurney took over a team that went to the playoffs last season. A year later, our record is only a game better than the Giants and we're talking about cleaning house.

That comparison doesn't really help your argument.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If you want to compare performances, Gettleman started off with a team that was the second worst in the league last season. A year later, they had a lousy season, but improved.

Hurney took over a team that went to the playoffs last season. A year later, our record is only a game better than the Giants.

That comparison doesn't really help your argument.

Yeah but Jerry Reese won two Super Bowls and had a career winning percentage of about 52% with the Giants. I thought results mattered.