If you can only fire one,who goes Hurney or Rivera?

[panther4life]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The problem was never just those things. The problem is that Hurney doesn't know how to to build a complete roster.

He was handed a roster that went 11-5 and made the playoffs. In a single offseason, he managed to turn it into a roster with major deficiencies, one that's likely about to complete a historical collapse.

He's not good enough, and there's zero reason to give him more seasons to prove that. especially not when you realize that the longer he was in charge than last time, the worse things got.

Do you really think the roster in 2017 was so far superior to the roster in 2018 that it would justify a 5 game swing in win total?

 

[LinvilleGorge]

Colbert had a mediocre rookie season considering he was starting opposite 89. What did he have, like 600ish yards? That's not a good #2 WR. It just looks "good" because his career completely went down the tubes after his rookie season. 

Same thing with Gettis. The guy started virtually ever game and had 500 yards or so. People were only excited about him because he was a 5th round pick actually doing something as a rookie.

KB is a solid point. The guy looked like a future perennial All-Pro as a rookie. KB just didn't have the want to which seems to be a trend of Gettleman picks. KB, Funchess, Turner, Short... all guys with tremendous ability but questionable motors. I can't blame him for Turner and Short though. Those guys didn't start mailing it in until they had that fug you money.

[ncfan]

26 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

stopped reading after you refused to give DJ Moore credit but fuging gave credit to Bene Benwikere, a piece of burned toast, and Tre Boston, the living embodiment of a missed tackle on third and long.

Im not giving him credit for drafting Moore

When everyone around him topd him to draft a WR.  And the top WR litterally fell in his lap

 

I said you have to be careful about crowning credit for drafting someone as well.

Bene and Boston were perfect examples.

After those 2 rookie years.  Gettleman was crowned the godfather.  That "piece of burnt toast" was graded out the top rookie DB and all rookie team by everyone.  ESPN, SI, PFF, EVERYONE. 

https://247sports.com/Article/2014-NFL-Re-Draft--35769626/

25. San Diego Chargers - Bene' Benwikere

"With Bene' Benwikere still on the board, the Chargers get one of the top rookie corner backs in the league last season. He was a steal for the Carolina Panthers who traded their fifth and seventh round picks to snag him in the fifth round last season. He didn’t allow a single touchdown in 2014, and he was the third best in the NFL in the yards per reception allowed in 459 regular-season snaps. Benwikere finished the year with 33 tackles, two fumble recoveries and an interception, with PFF rating him as a top rookie corner over the final eight games of the season. He hung tough as a rookie and would fill in nicely for the Chargers secondary."

 

29. Patriots — Kony Ealy, DE, Missouri (Original pick: Dominique Easley, DT, Florida)

They say you can never have enough pass-rushers, so why not throw Kony Ealy into the mix? The Patriots’ two starting defensive ends, Rob Ninkovich and Chandler Jones, combined for 14 sacks. Collectively, New England’s 40 sacks placed them around the middle of the league. Ealy, who the Panthers nabbed 60th overall, had four sacks, a forced fumble and 12 tackles in 2014. Did he dominate? No. But the All-SEC selection showed enough to believe he could be a consistent rusher off the edge. As tends to be the case with a club that’s one four Super Bowl titles since 2001, the Patriots have an excess of riches. Pass-rushers are as valuable as ever today, so it makes sense to stock up on them.

 

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Do you really think the roster in 2017 was so far superior to the roster in 2018 that it would justify a 5 game swing in win total?

 

Did we change coaches between that year and this one or did we change players?

Heck, we actually got a significantly better offensive coordinator than we did the year before.

[panther4life]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Because he rebuilt the roster a year later.

Our most consistent period if success (four playoff appearances in five years) came under Gettleman. But perhaps even more impressive than that, he did it with Ron Rivera as head coach.

The same Ron Rivera that everybody sees as terrible now actually compiled a winning record when he worked under Gettleman. Meanwhile Hurney and Rivera can't even seem to manage a 500 season.

Like I said, it's an easy decision.

I don’t think Rivera is a terrible coach. I just think after 8 seasons we can do better. For clarity sake I think we can do better than Gettleman and Hurney too. All 3 of them have 1 thing in common. They lack consistency (in terms of winning).

[Carl Spackler]

3 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Im not giving him credit for drafting Moore

When everyone around him topd him to draft a WR.  And the top WR litterally fell in his lap

 

I said you have to be careful about crowning credit for drafting someone as well.

Bene and Boston were perfect examples.

After those 2 rookie years.  Gettleman was crowned the godfather.  That "piece of burnt toast" was graded out the top rookie DB and all rookie team by everyone.  ESPN, SI, PFF, EVERYONE.  So to get all hyped off someone looking good as a rookie and crowning a homerun draft pick by the GM, you need to wait

DJ is the No. 1-graded rookie WR this year, per PFF. I'll venture a bet that his second year exceeds Benwikere's and Boston's, barring some sort of injury or unforeseen circumstances.

[trueblade]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Did we change coaches between that year and this one or did we change players?

Pretty sure we changed coordinators (the defensive one being the more disastrous change).

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Did we change coaches between that year and this one or did we change players?

heck, we actually got a significantly better offensive coordinator than we did the year before.

We had a change at DC and that's the unit that fell off a cliff.

[t96]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The problem was never just those things. The problem is that Hurney doesn't know how to to build a complete roster.

He was handed a roster that went 11-5 and made the playoffs. In a single offseason, he managed to turn it into a roster with major deficiencies, one that's likely about to complete a historical collapse.

He's not good enough, and there's zero reason to give him more seasons to prove that. especially not when you realize that the longer he was in charge than last time, the worse things got.

This roster has holes, yes, but the roster is not the problem this year. We started 6-2 and every loss since except for PIT has been a one score game that was winnable at the end. Coaching has been the way bigger problem THIS YEAR. Don't disagree with you on Rivera and Hurney when looking at all the years. Either way this is a dumb question because if either one goes, they both will.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, panther4life said:

I don’t think Rivera is a terrible coach. I just think after 8 seasons we can do better. For clarity sake I think we can do better than Gettleman and Hurney too. All 3 of them have 1 thing in common. They lack consistency (in terms of winning).

Outside of a very select few all-time great coaches, I think most coaches just run their course after awhile. Their messages stop resonating in the locker room, other teams are able to study their tendencies and figure out their trends, etc. Sometimes both sides of equation need a change. Rivera has just grown stale in Carolina. I think he'll probably get another shot elsewhere, but it's time for him and Carolina to part ways.

[JARROD]

Coach— Hurney has been good actually. Good draft this year, good aggression on trying to bring quality free agents—-

oh—- DEFCON 2

We have to bring Torrey back—people complained about him playing, Rivera responded and boom, we never won another game,..

anyone not believing in good luck charms and metrics that say certain players just bring wins to a team,..

the Eagles and Nick Foles say hello.

put Torrey on that field.

fire Ron.

[Car123]

30 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Hurney

And its not close.

 

I get the  anger.  Rivers is nothing more than the flavor of the week.

 

This isnt a Gettleman is better Hurney post.

 

But lets look here

Rivera has been the most successful coach this organization has ever had.  He has been the most successful coach in this division the past 6-7 years.  Yes it sucks that this year is a disappointment, but Rivera has proven that he is the guy.

 

Hurney on the other hand.  Oh boy.

First off dont give the Bullchit excuse (in my best goofy voice) he drafted Cam, he drafted Luke.  He brought the main core of guys in.

Yeah he brough those guys in, he brought them in with high draft picks.  He brought Cam in with the #1 pick because we were the worst team in the league as a product of his system.

You think if the Browns start winning theyll be excited if the Owner brought Hugh Jackson back in. "Because he brought in the key buildblocks, and drafted Baker Mayfield and Myles Garrett"  youd be delusional to think they would.

Hurney was fired for a reason

He was Never even contacted for a interview with anyone else.....For A Reason

Look he is a nice guy.  But he was a friend of Jerry's and thats what got him the job.

It was obvious that some of Gettlemans decisions wernt the best and he butted heads we ith the owner.  So he was out the door.  So we brought the same guy in who failed in the past.  And you know what, he hasnt really lit the world on fire.

Everyone credits him for this years draft.  But its still early.  Lets look

Bene Benwikere- was all rookie team

Same with Tre Boston

Shaq Thompson- was praised as a great draft pick after year 1.

You cant be so quick to judge a draft pick off their rookie year

DJ Moore, I dont know how you could credit him.  Thats like giving credit to someone who pressed the button that he was instructed to.  It was no way to hide we were drafting a WR.  Moore was rated the top WR.  The new OC drooled over him and said I want that guy.  Cam said I want that guy.   And that top WR fell right into our lap. 

 

Outside the draft.  His Torrey Smith move hasnt looked great, couldve just cut Worley instead picking up Smiths 5 mil

The Captain Munnerlyn reunion hasnt turned out well.

He just hasnt brought in good key guys through FA like you saw Gettleman bring in (outside his last year), and those key pieces are what makes and breaks teams as much as drafts.

And Hurney has just never been able to do it.

We had those "key guys" in Olsen, Cam, TD, and Luke when he was here the first time but still struggled.

There instead a coincidence that things changed once Gettleman took over for him

Gettleman gave Munnerlyn 20 million. 

[t96]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Did we change coaches between that year and this one or did we change players?

Heck, we actually got a significantly better offensive coordinator than we did the year before.

Rivera's lack of change and innovation from year to year is the more crucial change than the players.

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We had a change at DC and that's the unit that fell off a cliff.

With old, ineffective players responsible for our pass rush.

Plus we had our head coach - whom everybody accepts is a solid defensive coordinator - take over the defensive playcalls. Did things get any better?