If you can only fire one,who goes Hurney or Rivera?

[Peppers90 NC]

I am way more confident in Hurney than I am Rivera at this point.

[ncfan]

Hurney

And its not close.

 

I get the  anger.  Rivers is nothing more than the flavor of the week.

 

This isnt a Gettleman is better Hurney post.

 

But lets look here

Rivera has been the most successful coach this organization has ever had.  He has been the most successful coach in this division the past 6-7 years.  Yes it sucks that this year is a disappointment, but Rivera has proven that he is the guy.

 

Hurney on the other hand.  Oh boy.

First off dont give the Bullchit excuse (in my best goofy voice) he drafted Cam, he drafted Luke.  He brought the main core of guys in.

Yeah he brough those guys in, he brought them in with high draft picks.  He brought Cam in with the #1 pick because we were the worst team in the league as a product of his system.

You think if the Browns start winning theyll be excited if the Owner brought Hugh Jackson back in. "Because he brought in the key buildblocks, and drafted Baker Mayfield and Myles Garrett"  youd be delusional to think they would.

Hurney was fired for a reason

He was Never even contacted for a interview with anyone else.....For A Reason

Look he is a nice guy.  But he was a friend of Jerry's and thats what got him the job.

It was obvious that some of Gettlemans decisions wernt the best and he butted heads we ith the owner.  So he was out the door.  So we brought the same guy in who failed in the past.  And you know what, he hasnt really lit the world on fire.

Everyone credits him for this years draft.  But its still early.  Lets look

Bene Benwikere- was all rookie team

Same with Tre Boston

Shaq Thompson- was praised as a great draft pick after year 1.

You cant be so quick to judge a draft pick off their rookie year

DJ Moore, I dont know how you could credit him.  Thats like giving credit to someone who pressed the button that he was instructed to.  It was no way to hide we were drafting a WR.  Moore was rated the top WR.  The new OC drooled over him and said I want that guy.  Cam said I want that guy.   And that top WR fell right into our lap. 

 

Outside the draft.  His Torrey Smith move hasnt looked great, couldve just cut Worley instead picking up Smiths 5 mil

The Captain Munnerlyn reunion hasnt turned out well.

He just hasnt brought in good key guys through FA like you saw Gettleman bring in (outside his last year), and those key pieces are what makes and breaks teams as much as drafts.

And Hurney has just never been able to do it.

We had those "key guys" in Olsen, Cam, TD, and Luke when he was here the first time but still struggled.

There instead a coincidence that things changed once Gettleman took over for him

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Just to clarify. Do you think Hurney has learned nothing from his first tenure and time off? 

1 offseason is a small sample size I know. But he’s admitted to his past mistakes and has not repeated them yet. 

The problem was never just those things. The problem is that Hurney doesn't know how to to build a complete roster.

He was handed a roster that went 11-5 and made the playoffs. In a single offseason, he managed to turn it into a roster with major deficiencies, one that's likely about to complete a historical collapse.

He's not good enough, and there's zero reason to give him more seasons to prove that. especially not when you realize that the longer he was in charge than last time, the worse things got.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

8 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

if you are going to remake an organization, you start at the top and work your way down.  Otherwise, you are eventually saddling a new GM with a coach he didn't pick, may not want, and may not see eye to eye with.  That just prolongs the transition process. 

This.

[Carl Spackler]

5 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Hurney

And its not close.

 

I get the  anger.  Rivers is nothing more than the flavor of the week.

 

This isnt a Gettleman is better Hurney post.

 

But lets look here

Rivera has been the most successful coach this organization has ever had.  He has been the most successful coach in this division the past 6-7 years.  Yes it sucks that this year is a disappointment, but Rivera has proven that he is the guy.

 

Hurney on the other hand.  Oh boy.

First off dont give the Bullchit excuse (in my best goofy voice) he drafted Cam, he drafted Luke.  He brought the main core of guys in.

Yeah he brough those guys in, he brought them in with high draft picks.  He brought Cam in with the #1 pick because we were the worst team in the league as a product of his system.

You think if the Browns start winning theyll be excited if the Owner brought Hugh Jackson back in. "Because he brought in the key buildblocks, and drafted Baker Mayfield and Myles Garrett"  youd be delusional to think they would.

Hurney was fired for a reason

He was Never even contacted for a interview with anyone else.....For A Reason

Look he is a nice guy.  But he was a friend of Jerry's and thats what got him the job.

It was obvious that some of Gettlemans decisions wernt the best and he butted heads we ith the owner.  So he was out the door.  So we brought the same guy in who failed in the past.  And you know what, he hasnt really lit the world on fire.

Everyone credits him for this years draft.  But its still early.  Lets look

Bene Benwikere- was all rookie team

Same with Tre Boston

Shaq Thompson- was praised as a great draft pick after year 1.

You cant be so quick to judge a draft pick off their rookie year

DJ Moore, I dont know how you could credit him.  Thats like giving credit to someone who pressed the button that he was instructed to.  It was no way to hide we were drafting a WR.  Moore was rated the top WR.  The new OC drooled over him and said I want that guy.  Cam said I want that guy.   And that top WR fell right into our lap. 

 

Outside the draft.  His Torrey Smith move hasnt looked great, couldve just cut Worley instead picking up Smiths 5 mil

The Captain Munnerlyn reunion hasnt turned out well.

He just hasnt brought in good key guys through FA like you saw Gettleman bring in (outside his last year), and those key pieces are what makes and breaks teams as much as drafts.

And Hurney has just never been able to do it.

We had those "key guys" in Olsen, Cam, TD, and Luke when he was here the first time but still struggled.

There instead a coincidence that things changed once Gettleman took over for him

stopped reading after you refused to give DJ Moore credit but fuging gave credit to Bene Benwikere, a piece of burned toast, and Tre Boston, the living embodiment of a missed tackle on third and long.

[trueblade]

7 minutes ago, ncfan said:

There instead a coincidence that things changed once Gettleman took over for him

It's possible you've assigned a causative relationship to something which is merely corollary.

Gettlemen's first year would have been Cam's 3rd and Luke's 2nd. They were really coming into their own as players, at the top of their game mentally and physically.

You can see the inverse as well. In 2016, Cam hurt his shoulder and Luke missed the final six games with a concussion (6-10). Those two were healthy again in 2017 (11-5), but Cam got hurt in Pittsburgh this year and we haven't won a game since.

Edit: and just to be clear, I stand by what I said earlier in this thread, that Hurney needs to go.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Rivera and Hurney are a losing combination.

Rivera's record with Gettleman is not only (substantially) better than his record with Hurney; it's also better than Hurney's record with John Fox.

It's not a tough decision.

And this.

[LinvilleGorge]

That's tough because I'd absolutely fire both of them. Hiring Hurney back for the job he was fired from for failing miserably was one of the most idiotic business decisions I've ever seen.

If I'm going off recent performance though, I think Hurney has had a better year than Ron and I don't think it's even close. It looks like he hit a few homeruns in the draft with Moore, Jackson, and Thomas while there's not much argument that Ron has poo'd the bed. I know folks are disappointed with Poe, but honestly, he's more or less done his job on the DL. Playing that one technique, his primary job is to eat up blockers. That's why Star's stats never stood out either. Those guys' main job is to facilitate. They occupy the blockers so the other guys can rack up the stats. Now, I haven't paid a great deal of attention solely to his play so it's very possible (honestly likely) that he's a downgrade from Star, but it's Short's play that has fallen off a cliff. Short's vanishing act this year is the biggest issue with our DL. We knew our DE's were aging and lacked a true big time impact player. Our DL relies on Short being that impact player and he's been a total JAG since his very good week one performance. I don't know if he's playing with hidden injuries or what, but he has not held up his end of the bargain this year.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

stopped reading after you refused to give DJ Moore credit but fuging gave credit to Bene Benwikere, a piece of burned toast, and Tre Boston, the living embodiment of a missed tackle on third and long.

You missed the point.

He's saying that players who look good in their rookie years don't always turn out to be the great players you think they will be.

Want a better example? How about Keary Colbert?

[panther4life]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The problem was never just those things. The problem is that Hurney doesn't know how to to build a complete roster.

He was handed a roster that went 11-5 and made the playoffs. In a single offseason, he managed to turn it into a roster with major deficiencies, one that's likely about to complete a historical collapse.

He's not good enough, and there's zero reason to give him more seasons to prove that. especially not when you realize that the longer he was in charge than last time, the worse things got.

Thanks for the response. But this leads me to a follow up question. You say he was handed a 11-5 roster and it’s” on the verge of a historical collapse”. However you seem to continue to praise Gettleman as if he didn’t have a 15-1 roster fall to 6-10. Why is that?

[Mr. Scot]

A couple of added points...

One, if you fire Rivera, you're trusting Marty Hurney to hire the next head coach (i.e. the guy who hired Rivera).

Two, you're trusting Marty Hurney and whatever head coach he chooses to fundamentally remake the roster for the next several years.

Both of those prospects scare the living sh-t outta me.

[Carl Spackler]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

You missed the point.

He's saying that players who look good in their rookie years don't always turn out to be the great players you think they will be.

Want a better example? How about Keary Colbert?

I genuinely believe that DJ Moore far exceeds Keary Colbert, or David Gettis, or Kelvin Benjamin. I'm not remotely concerned about his ability to be a consistent contributor over the long term. 

DJ mixes good hands with the explosiveness our wideout corps has lacked since playbook-stealin', Anthony Bright-and-Ken Lucas-punchin' Steve Smith was here. 

That said, I feel like every time I compliment a Panther, they cost us the next game. So disregard all that...

[NanuqoftheNorth]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'd absolutely fire both of them

But really this. 

Next year is a critical draft.

Hurney's track record when it comes to draft choices absolutely blows after the 1st round (when he hasn't already traded it away to another team).

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, panther4life said:

Thanks for the response. But this leads me to a follow up question. You say he was handed a 11-5 roster and it’s” on the verge of a historical collapse”. However you seem to continue to praise Gettleman as if he didn’t have a 15-1 roster fall to 6-10. Why is that?

Because he rebuilt the roster a year later.

Our most consistent period if success (four playoff appearances in five years) came under Gettleman. But perhaps even more impressive than that, he did it with Ron Rivera as head coach.

The same Ron Rivera that everybody sees as terrible now actually compiled a winning record, coached a historic season and made a Super Bowl when he worked under Gettleman. Meanwhile Hurney and Rivera can't even seem to manage a 500 season.

Like I said, it's an easy decision.