If you can only fire one,who goes Hurney or Rivera?

[kungfoodude]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Josh McDaniels did, but that's not the point.

A new coach who comes in isn't looking at the Cam Newton of yesteryear. He's looking at the Cam Newton of last night and the weeks to come. And he'll do so without any sentiment.

Add in what Igo posted and well...

I think in hindsight it might be a bit of a stretch to call Jay Cutler a franchise QB but that was different at that time, so I will give that. But you are citing a coach that literally almost singlehandedly tanked a franchise.

And Igo has posted a bunch of dumb poo over the years, so I don't think his reactionary thread is much in the way of evidence that a new coach is going to get rid of Cam. 

Could it happen, yes. Is it likely to happen, probably not. Now if we are talking after next season, I could see that scenario because Cam only has two years left on his deal(I believe). But, outside of some offseason scenario that we are all unaware of at this point, it is not a realistic scenario to see a new coach come in and cut ties immediately. 

If so, we are fuged. On the surface, this appears to be one of the weakest QB drafts in recently memory. Outside of rolling the dice on the Haskins kid, it is a parade of red flag QB's that have "future 3rd stringer" written all over them. 

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think in hindsight it might be a bit of a stretch to call Jay Cutler a franchise QB but that was different at that time, so I will give that. But you are citing a coach that literally almost singlehandedly tanked a franchise.

And Igo has posted a bunch of dumb poo over the years, so I don't think his reactionary thread is much in the way of evidence that a new coach is going to get rid of Cam. 

Could it happen, yes. Is it likely to happen, probably not. Now if we are talking after next season, I could see that scenario because Cam only has two years left on his deal(I believe). But, outside of some offseason scenario that we are all unaware of at this point, it is not a realistic scenario to see a new coach come in and cut ties immediately. 

If so, we are fuged. On the surface, this appears to be one of the weakest QB drafts in recently memory. Outside of rolling the dice on the Haskins kid, it is a parade of red flag QB's that have "future 3rd stringer" written all over them. 

The thing is we look at Cam and can't possibly imagine the team without him.

A new coach doesn't have those feelings. And if Newton's shoulder is messed up, then they're even more likely to be ready to move on.

I know nobody here wants to think about that, but it's a very real possibility. And it's a possibility that increases if the coach who is most closely tied to him is sent packing.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The thing is we look at Cam and can't possibly imagine the team without him.

A new coach doesn't have those feelings. And if Newton's shoulder is messed up, then they're even more likely to be ready to move on.

I know nobody here wants to think about that, but it's a very real possibility. And it's a possibility that increases if the coach who is most closely tied to him is sent packing.

That would also be a coach, GM and owner that are basically saying we are going to be tanking for the foreseeable future. How likely of a scenario do you see that being?

We very, very, very clearly do not have another option on the roster. I mean...have you looked at the free agency options coming available next year? So, if it isn't that then a 10-12 pick in the first round to take a QB. That sounds like the recipe for a new coach looking for a new job in 2-3 seasons.

I suppose you could try and trade for someone like Foles/Wentz. But that is going to come at an extreme price.

[Mr. Scot]

13 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That would also be a coach, GM and owner that are basically saying we are going to be tanking for the foreseeable future. How likely of a scenario do you see that being?

We very, very, very clearly do not have another option on the roster. I mean...have you looked at the free agency options coming available next year? So, if it isn't that then a 10-12 pick in the first round to take a QB. That sounds like the recipe for a new coach looking for a new job in 2-3 seasons.

I suppose you could try and trade for someone like Foles/Wentz. But that is going to come at an extreme price.

They're not going to see it that way at all. Probably just the opposite, honestly.

Fans might say "how can we win without Cam" but an owner, GM and coach will point to guys like Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers as evidence you can indeed move on and succeed.

You have to remember owners aren't doing this stuff just for fun. This is a business to them. Moving on from Newton is a business decision.

It's also inevitable.

Most of us thought it was farther off, but the real possibility exists that it might be sooner than we imagined.

[kungfoodude]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

They're not going to see it that way at all. Probably just the opposite, honestly.

Fans might say "how can we win without Cam" but an owner, GM and coach will point to guys like Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers as evidence you can indeed move on and succeed.

You have to remember owners aren't doing this stuff just for fun. This is a business to them. Moving on from Newton is a business decision.

It's also inevitable.

Most of us thought it was farther off, but the real possibility exists that it might be sooner than we imagined.

I just don't see it as a reasonable option unless it is in one of two scenarios, trading for another QB or attempting to tank until you get another franchise QB. The first scenario might be realistic, although I do not think the available options are likely to be better than Cam. If we move on from Cam it is probably likely to be in 2020 when the QB options in free agency get better and Cam is at the end of his deal. Tanking to get a guy is not a successful strategy and I don't see Tepper as a guy willing to stink for 2-3 seasons while we hope a QB falls in our lap through the draft.

I do think Cam might be gone at the end of hia current contract but him being jettisoned next year doesn't make a lot of sense.

Of course, you and I are also speculating on a scenario that also hasn't happened yet, either. We have no idea what will happen at HC or GM.

[Peppers90 NC]

If Cam is not IR'd before next practice both have to be fired.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I just don't see it as a reasonable option unless it is in one of two scenarios, trading for another QB or attempting to tank until you get another franchise QB. The first scenario might be realistic, although I do not think the available options are likely to be better than Cam. If we move on from Cam it is probably likely to be in 2020 when the QB options in free agency get better and Cam is at the end of his deal. Tanking to get a guy is not a successful strategy and I don't see Tepper as a guy willing to stink for 2-3 seasons while we hope a QB falls in our lap through the draft.

I do think Cam might be gone at the end of hia current contract but him being jettisoned next year doesn't make a lot of sense.

Of course, you and I are also speculating on a scenario that also hasn't happened yet, either. We have no idea what will happen at HC or GM.

Again, you're thinking like a fan.

When Newton was drafted, he wasn't already a franchise quarterback. They drafted him because they believed he could become one.

It'll be no different if they draft someone else.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Again, you're thinking like a fan.

When Newton was drafted, he wasn't already a franchise quarterback. They drafted him because they believed he could become one.

It'll be no different if they draft someone else.

Yeah, I am also basing that on the fact that none of those kind of guys are available in this draft, IMO. 

Franchise QB's don't grow on trees. Ask the Browns, ask the Bears, ask the Jags, ask the Panthers, ask....you get my point. 

Now maybe Hurney or whatever future GM see something in this crop that I don't. 

[Car123]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Again, you're thinking like a fan.

When Newton was drafted, he wasn't already a franchise quarterback. They drafted him because they believed he could become one.

It'll be no different if they draft someone else.

Yet you say our record in Cam's first two seasons was due to bad GMing. You don't believe a qb should be given time to grow as a qb. From your past statements, you believe rookie Cam was the finished product.

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I am also basing that on the fact that none of those kind of guys are available in this draft, IMO. 

Franchise QB's don't grow on trees. Ask the Browns, ask the Bears, ask the Jags, ask the Panthers, ask....you get my point. 

Now maybe Hurney or whatever future GM see something in this crop that I don't. 

There's this guy named Rodgers that a whole bunch of teams passed on.  The team that actually did draft him sat him down for years.

There's a guy named Brady who nobody thought was worth a pick until the 6th round. He also sat behind somebody else until that guy got injured.

Also remember this guy named Warner that nobody wanted at all. Heck, he was bagging groceries when somebody decided to give him a try strictly as a third-stringer.

More recently, there was this guy named Mahomes that several teams ignored because they thought he wouldn't be anything special.

And on the flip side, there was this guy named Leaf that everybody thought would be a success. One of the best GM's in the NFL actually traded up for him. He was a disaster.

Drafting quarterbacks is far from an exact science. Guys nobody believed in become superstars. Guys everybody believed in become busts.

if we have to move on from Newton, (and that's a real possibility) it's not guaranteed that his replacement is going to suck.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's this guy named Rodgers that a whole bunch of teams passed on.  The team that actually did draft him sat him down for years.

There's a guy named Brady who nobody thought was worth a pick until the 6th round. He also sat behind somebody else until that guy got injured.

Also remember this guy named Warner that nobody wanted at all. Heck, he was bagging groceries when somebody decided to give him a try strictly as a third-stringer.

More recently, there was this guy named Mahomes that several teams ignored because they thought he wouldn't be anything special.

And on the flip side, there was this guy named Leaf that everybody thought would be a success. One of the best GM's in the NFL actually traded up for him. He was a disaster.

Drafting quarterbacks is far from an exact science. Guys nobody believed in become superstars. Guys everybody believed in become busts.

if we have to move on from Newton, (and that's a real possibility) it's not guaranteed that his replacement is going to suck.

The odds definitely favor his replacement sucking if he comes from the draft ranks. There many more failures than successes when it comes to getting a franchise QB. We are a good example of that. Although we have only drafted 8 QB's in franchise history and only two in the first round, so we might actually have some of the best first round success at QB in the league.

We will see. My guess is that we will being seeing Cam in a Panthers uniform at least until his contract is up.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The odds definitely favor his replacement sucking if he comes from the draft ranks. There many more failures than successes when it comes to getting a franchise QB. We are a good example of that. Although we have only drafted 8 QB's in franchise history and only two in the first round, so we might actually have some of the best first round success at QB in the league.

We will see. My guess is that we will being seeing Cam in a Panthers uniform at least until his contract is up.

The odds of draft success go way up when the people making those decisions know what they're doing. Hence why we need to clean house.

As to Newton, I have no idea. I hope for the best, but I also realize we need to plan for the worst.

[Car123]

37 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Again, you're thinking like a fan.

When Newton was drafted, he wasn't already a franchise quarterback. They drafted him because they believed he could become one.

It'll be no different if they draft someone else.

Yet you say our record in Cam's first two seasons was due to bad GMing. You don't believe a qb should be given time to grow as a qb. From your past statements, youbelieve rookie Cam was the finished product.

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The odds of draft success go way up when the people making those decisions know what they're doing. Hence why we need to clean house.

As to Newton, I have no idea. I hope for the best, but I also realize we need to plan for the worst.

Eh....maybe. I think hitting on some of these guys is probably more luck than evaluation. Makes them look like geniuses, though...

As Panthers fans, you should know by now we are never prepared for the worst as a franchise. That is Panthers 101(est. 1995).