If you can only fire one,who goes Hurney or Rivera?

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Krovvy said:

You're not answering my questions, to the point you're ignoring my entire posts to defend Dave Gettleman. That's not healthy.

I haven't bothered with your questions because they're pretty stupid questions.

I'll answer the first one, though: Gettleman wouldn't have fired Rivera because the difference between Rivera under Gettleman and Rivera under Hurney is that with the former, we were actually winning more games than we were losing.

So here again, you've actually brought up something that hurts your argument.

(guessing you weren't exactly captain of the Debate Club)

[Krovvy]

Just now, NeederNodder said:

I'd get rid of Hurney mainly due to how over the years he failed to address building around our QB and tonight it showed for that.

First two years he brought in Olsen, Shockey, and Wharton. The year prior to Cam arriving he drafted two receivers, the better of the two tore his ACL, and was never the same. The offensive line was good to great compared to the line we've seen since the 2014 off-season. If Jeff Otah didn't get injured Cam would have had a great offensive line for years I imagine.

[Krovvy]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I haven't bothered with your questions because they're pretty stupid questions.

I'll answer the first one, though: Gettleman wouldn't have fired Rivera because the difference between Rivera under Gettleman and Rivera under Hurney is that with the former, we were actually winning more games than we were losing.

So here again, you've actually brought up something that hurts your argument.

(guessing you weren't exactly captain of the Debate Club)

There you go attacking again and, then going into defense mode of Gettleman. Too bad the Giants aren't winning right now or you would really have something to keep repeating to yourself.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Krovvy said:

There you go attacking again and going into defense mode.

Nah.

Heck, given that you keep short circuiting your own arguments, I've actually gotten a pretty good chuckle out of this 

After watching the game we played tonight, I probably needed one.

So hey, thanks 

[lovelett]

8 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

The point isn't to analyze moves. It's to analyze results. You can praise or pick apart moves till the cows come home. All that matters is did we win or lose.

With Gettleman, we won. With Hurney, we don't. That's really all I care about.

Gettleman isn't coming back. Hurney should never have been rehired. Correct that mistake and we're good.

Do you think we should have kept Dave? Honest question....

[Krovvy]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Nah.

Heck, given that you keep short circuiting your own arguments, I've actually gotten a pretty good chuckle out of this 

After watching the game we played tonight, I probably needed one.

So hey, thanks 

You're not arguing anything though. You just keep rambling, deflecting, and completely ignoring me. You do realize no one cares about a "winner" in a forum argument right? You do understand we're not arguing for internet points, correct? You don't have to keep coming back to this "point" as if it's some conclusion. At the end of the day Hurney had a good off-season, Rivera had a terrible season, Gettleman did not make the Giants a winning team — if you really want to bring him into this, and I know you do because you're infatuated with him.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Krovvy said:

You're not arguing anything though. You just keep rambling, deflecting, and completely ignoring me. You do realize no one cares about a "winner" in a forum argument right? You do understand we're not arguing for internet points, correct? You don't have to keep coming back to this "point" as if it's some conclusion. At the end of the day Hurney had a good off-season, Rivera had a terrible season, Gettleman did not make the Giants a winning team — if you really want to bring him into this, and I know you do because you're infatuated with him.

Aaaahhh, so utterly wrong

See dude, the difference between you and me is that I actually don't have an emotional attachment to a GM because he drafted my favorite player. You do. You also have personal anger built up against a GM who released players you like.

(just for the record, my favorite player is actually Thomas Davis)

Me? I prefer non-emotional, non-sentimental judgments. That's because I realize the nature of pro football as a business. It's a cutthroat world, and  the vast majority of teams and players don't get happy endings.

That's just reality.

And I'm okay with that. 

There will come a day when Davis, Newton, Kuechly, McCaffrey and several other players that I like won't play for the Panthers anymore. They might not even part ways on good terms. That happens a lot with teams that employ the Steeler method, which is what Tepper says he plans to do here.

But again, that's football. I'll still cheer for the Panthers either way.

I know you can't understand that, and that's probably why your argument is so utterly misguided.

But hey, that just how it is...

[Krovvy]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Aaaahhh, so utterly wrong

See dude, the difference between you and me is that I actually don't have an emotional attachment to a GM because he drafted my favorite player. You do. You also have personal anger built up against a GM who released players you like.

(just for the record, my favorite player is actually Thomas Davis)

Me? I prefer non-emotional, non-sentimental judgments. That's because I realize the nature of pro football as a business. It's a cutthroat world, and  the vast majority of teams and players don't get happy endings.

That's just reality.

And I'm okay with that. 

There will come a day when Davis, Newton, Kuechly, McCaffrey and several other players that I like won't play for the Panthers anymore. They might not even part ways on good terms. That happens a lot with teams that employ the Steeler method, which is what Tepper says he plans to do here.

But again, that's football. I'll still cheer for the Panthers either way.

I know you can't understand that, and that's probably why your argument is so utterly misguided.

But hey, that just how it is...

Oh boy, more of same. It's like a skipping record, if the record was called "Project, Self Assurances, and Petty Insults".

[Krovvy]

So I voted for Rivera, because he's been utter garbage this season, making several decisions that lead directly to losses. Hurney, while not having an amazing off-season, did manage to find pieces in the draft, and didn't make any moves that sunk the ship. In fact it's arguable that Hurney's last draft might be one of the best in the last five years for the Panthers.

Edit: Better state this before being dragged into another Gettledeflectionhole. Who knew that holding the opinion that Hurney did okay this year would trigger some folks. Either way I want to upgrade from Hurney as soon as the Panthers find someone. Though I hope Tepper is certain that who he finds is an upgrade.

[Jangler]

11 hours ago, Billy Love said:

Rivera today. hurney tomorrow

that's a beatle song.

[Mr. Scot]

6 hours ago, lovelett said:

Do you think we should have kept Dave? Honest question....

You don't fire someone who's successful at their job, that is unless your top priority is something other than success.

Jerry Richardson's top priority was working with people he liked.

(and women in tight jeans)

[Mr. Scot]

Something else that's worth mentioning here...

Ron Rivera and Cam Newton are very closely tied. They started together. They've been to war together for the last 8 years. For whatever you think of how he's handled him, Rivera has a certain level of loyalty to Newton.

A new coach doesn't.

A new coach's impression of Newton will be affected greatly by what we've seen in the last several games. A new coach may also run a system but she doesn't see Cam Newton fitting into.

Ron Rivera objectively deserves to be fired. So does Marty Hurney. I don't have questions on either of those fronts.

But keep in mind, if you're choosing to fire one and it's Rivera, you may also be choosing to let go of Cam Newton.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Something else that's worth mentioning here...

Ron Rivera and Cam Newton are very closely tied. They started together. They've been to war together for the last 8 years. For whatever you think of how he's handled him, Rivera has a certain level of loyalty to Newton.

A new coach doesn't.

A new coach's impression of Newton will be affected greatly by what we've seen in the last several games.

Ron Rivera objectively deserves to be fired. So does Marty Hurney. I don't have questions on either of those fronts.

But keep in mind, if you're choosing to fire one and it's Rivera, you may also be choosing to let go of Cam Newton.

That is really a stretch. Name me a list of new coaches that went in and ran a franchise QB out of town. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

That is really a stretch. Name me a list of new coaches that went in and ran a franchise QB out of town. 

Josh McDaniels did, but that's not the point.

A new coach who comes in isn't looking at the Cam Newton of yesteryear. He's looking at the Cam Newton of last night and the weeks to come. And he'll do so without any sentiment.

Add in what Igo posted and well...