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89, Bottom Line, says stop blaming Cam's shoulder


top dawg

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20 hours ago, top dawg said:

So, either listen or hate, but Steve Smith is more right than wrong in my opinion when he analyzes football. 

 

"Everybody wants to say 'His shoulder's the reason why he overthrew a six-foot-five wide receiver'. No: His footwork was the reason he overthrew a six-foot-five wide receiver," said Smith. "His footwork was the reason that (he missed Jarius Wright, who was open in the endzone. Or the back-shoulder throw that he threw a million miles per hour to Curtis Samuel. Footwork."

There's more!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi99d_c5prfAhVGba0KHYIuATgQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fnfl%2Fcarolina-panthers%2FArticle%2FCam-Newton-footwork-struggles-Steve-Smith-126223778%2F&psig=AOvVaw1-GBIwIf-AawkLxuAEQxiz&ust=1544721653532245

As I've said recently, although I largely support Cam, and still want to see what he does with what I deem is great protection (at least on his blind side), I'm not going to be an apologist for sloppy footwork, missing reads, and especially bad decisions. 

 

.......if his footwork is the problem why then was Cam more efficient in the past of throwing passes that he's missing now?

.....if his footwork is the problem........why can't he throw a deep ball now?

Cam is a large fast athlete QB which served him well until he spent a few years in the NFL in an offensive play scheme that used his running skills like a college QB.......and guess what?..................he got beat up.......as any running QB will in the NFL.

The NFL is too fast and too big to have QBs running around........they get slammed enough as pocket passes..............even with all the rules in place to protect them now.

Steve Smith is right about footwork and Cam doesn't have that touch on his passes as good as other pocket QBs because of it.................but Cams recent passing issues are profoundly worse now.......and footwork isn't the culprit........

 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's a factor you haven't touched on though. Specifically, that his shoulder was diagnosed to have a structural problem previously, one that required surgery to fix.

Knowing that increases the likelihood that another problem could occur.

I'd add that while fatigue would tend to make a throwing motion more labored, it shouldn't alter it. Pain, on the other hand, will do exactly that.

It been a couple of years since his surgery.  And we haven't heard anything about a re-injury, just general soreness.  So thinking there is anything more to it is nothing but assumptions without established facts.  I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong, but at this point we have no proof or even legitimate reports that it is structural rather than just soreness.

And basic logic will tell you that general fatigue will effect arm strength and accuracy.  Simple pain, on the other hand, can be managed, and does not necessarily effect motion.  It's a matter of tolerance.  And labored motion is, by definition, altered.  

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11 hours ago, Silent Majority said:

So the only guys you would rather have over Cam are 2 future HOFers and maybe 2 guys who haven't done it for more than a season. We all wish Cam was more accurate at times. Hell 3/4 of the the league wants rodgers, brees, brady....but after them there's Cam. Nobody fuging respects that! Dude has been doing it with a defensive minded head coach and a carousel of OCs, shitty o lines and no real #1WR. KBs best season and relevance was because of who? Its crazy how much this dude is disrespected by this fan base.

I think that Cam is disrespected by some in the fan base for a different reason...

I think that others, including NFL people that have played the game and/or know the game want him to reach his potential (many for a number of reasons). I don't think that objective criticism is disrespect. Too many knowledgeable people across generations and across the spectrum have said some of the same things about Cam's play to just assume that it's disrespect. If Cam wants to be all that he can be, he's got to raise his level of consistency.

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3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I think that Cam is disrespected by some in the fan base for a different reason...

I think that others, including NFL people that have played the game and/or know the game want him to reach his potential (many for a number of reasons). I don't think that objective criticism is disrespect. Too many knowledgeable people across generations and across the spectrum have said some of the same things about Cam's play to just assume that it's disrespect. If Cam wants to be all that he can be, he's got to raise his level of consistency.

Most of them only watch highlights. I'll stick with NFL Matchup and Greg Cosell.

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3 hours ago, Jangler said:

who does Cam really have to talk to about being a QB, and playing the position?  @Mr. Scot

Has he had anybody in the 8 years in the NFL that he can trust to make him better? Coach Rivera has finally lost control of this team, because of just getting enough done to bet by, and it has caused a lot of bad habits across the team. I bet Cam would respond to a QB he respects. Like Peyton as his QB coach, and a good jumping off place for Manning as well.

You might be right. There is a chance that Cam could have ended up a lot better than he is with better coaching, but there's just no way to know that. There's also the chance that he doesn't respond well to coaching and tries to get by on physical talent alone, but again we can't know this. All we have to go on is the way Cam performs...

 

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2 hours ago, PghPanther said:

.......if his footwork is the problem why then was Cam more efficient in the past of throwing passes that he's missing now?

.....if his footwork is the problem........why can't he throw a deep ball now?

Cam is a large fast athlete QB which served him well until he spent a few years in the NFL in an offensive play scheme that used his running skills like a college QB.......and guess what?..................he got beat up.......as any running QB will in the NFL.

The NFL is too fast and too big to have QBs running around........they get slammed enough as pocket passes..............even with all the rules in place to protect them now.

Steve Smith is right about footwork and Cam doesn't have that touch on his passes as good as other pocket QBs because of it.................but Cams recent passing issues are profoundly worse now.......and footwork isn't the culprit........

 

He didn't get hurt running.

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9 hours ago, JamesPage said:

It's not necessarily an either or situation...

It is possible that Cam has technique issues and RR is not a good coach at the same time.

This.  Add an injury or two to the mix and you have a perfect storm.  And his tendency to step laterally when he throws puts more pressure on his shoulder (and arm in general) during passes.

People tend to look for one thing as being the cause of an issue.  In reality, problems are usually more complex than that.  In Cam's case, even if his shoulder is just giving him "discomfort," given how he throws the ball, that may be enough to have more of an impact to him that it would Brees, Brady Rodgers, etc.  Somebody on one of these threads mentioned a possible knee injury from the Steelers debacle, and if that is in the mix, too, it certainly would not help him get the ball downfield.

So, my guess is it is the totality of these things and his footwork can't compensate at all, and in fact makes it worse. 

Add Mike Shula to the list of coaches who had little impact on his throwing technique.  My guess is it was just easier to run with him as is than try to coach him.  While that may lead to better results in the short term, it is a liability down the road.  We have seen that with other QBs that never became what everybody thought they could have been, and they were less talented than Cam.

And I can see a scenario where the idea of giving Turner another year to work with the offense and Cam saves Rivera's job.  I'm not judging or predicting it, I can just see it as a possibility.  Especially if Tepper wants to sort out who his GM is going to be first.

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1 hour ago, Silent Majority said:

Most of them only watch highlights. I'll stick with NFL Matchup and Greg Cosell.

I don't know about most of them only watching highlights, but I'm sure some do. A lot of these guys have access to film, but more importantly know the position and the game. 

I love Greg Cosell, but his mouth is not a prayer book. Even he has been critical of Cam on more than one occasion. Here is one:

 

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3 hours ago, PghPanther said:

.......if his footwork is the problem why then was Cam more efficient in the past of throwing passes that he's missing now?

.....if his footwork is the problem........why can't he throw a deep ball now?

Cam is a large fast athlete QB which served him well until he spent a few years in the NFL in an offensive play scheme that used his running skills like a college QB.......and guess what?..................he got beat up.......as any running QB will in the NFL.

The NFL is too fast and too big to have QBs running around........they get slammed enough as pocket passes..............even with all the rules in place to protect them now.

Steve Smith is right about footwork and Cam doesn't have that touch on his passes as good as other pocket QBs because of it.................but Cams recent passing issues are profoundly worse now.......and footwork isn't the culprit........

 

Even if you don't think that footwork is the problem for his most recent issues---I'm assuming you believe it's his shoulder---then you have to ask yourself does Cam really need to be playing. If he knows that he can't shoulder his responsibility (pun originally not intended), then the best thing for him to do was sit down because he's hurting the team.

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14 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I don't know about most of them only watching highlights, but I'm sure some do. A lot of these guys have access to film, but more importantly know the position and the game. 

I love Greg Cosell, but his mouth is not a prayer book. Even he has been critical of Cam on more than one occasion. Here is one:

 

Not sure about the prayer book comment. Never said it was. What he is however, is very thorough and emotionless in his analogies. He calls it like he sees it. He said just today that Cam is in his 8th year and probably won't change his mechanics. Said also that Cam has never had very good mechanics. He ALSO said that having good mechanics is not necessarily a prerequisite. A player Cam be very good inspite of certain things. Nobody's perfect. He has historically been a Cam advocate just based on the film. Other analysts are good, some others not so much. The problem arises when people want to cherry pick and/or omit factors in an effort to support their narratives.

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