Is Cams shoulder as bad as we thought?

[Silent Majority]

@GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER Great posts. Thanks for putting me on to that twitter account. Loving the All-22

[Puddinhead]

So, an outside perspective, with no troll value intended whatsoever (in this thread, anyway)?  Just from a guy who's sort of had a heightened interest in "throwing", as in quarterbacks and pitchers, through 45 years or so of following both sports?  Albeit without any training or particular expertise in kinesiology or anything...

What you're seeing now is what you always see at this point in a career highlighted by what might be absolutely the worst mechanics and footwork I've ever seen.  Foot placement, hip position, arm angle, shoulder rotation...it's like the guy consciously thinks about what positions for each would put the most strain on the throwing shoulder and then does that.  The amazing thing is that he's lasted this long in his career before the shoulder got (apparently) this jacked up.

[thefuzz]

20 hours ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

teams aren't concerned about mccaffrey beating them and to this point they've been right. not because he isn't good btw. i get the sense that from a philosophical standpoint opposing teams are content to sit back and defend against the pass because:

1) they know they can score on our defense when necessary and

2) they know our offensive line is going to fug up multiple times

here's a stat for you: christian mccaffrey has amassed 100+ yards in 8 games this season. we are 2-6 in those games. and it's not really some weird anomaly that mccaffrey stays open on those dump offs. he's great with the ball in his hands and all but the reality is he has the lowest yards per catch on the team. this is something that the "take the layups" crowd has missed since cam first arrived. cam's elite downfield and teams know that. "take the layups" turns him into alex smith. opposing defenses would choose to face alex smith over cam newton 100 times out of 100. the "layups" dont scare you when you're the golden state warriors and when you're the carolina panthers you're basically facing the warriors every week.

cam's value is in his ability to read defense, his ability to throw the ball intermediate and deep, and his ability to run the ball. injuries and terrible offensive line play have severely limited his most valuable skills.

yes and as i've said there's been lots of falling backwards/getting hit/stepping to the side. the offensive line is fuging awful. you know it's bad when it looks this bad despite having a guy like cam newton in the pocket. he hides a lot with his pocket presence and ability to escape. he can't hide it all.

anyway here are some clips from sunday:

 

 

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree here.

Anytime you are putting Tyler Heinicke in to throw hail mary's, something is certainly wrong with the shoulder.

I will agree with the line being bad, and Cam's inability to step up, however IMO that's just a piece of it.  

[cookinbrak]

If Cam's shoulder regresses during the game, let Heincke play the first half and Cam comes in the second half.

[Carl Spackler]

19 hours ago, GOOGLE JIM BOB COOTER said:

mccaffrey is certainly debatable and im not going to hold it against anyone who thinks he's better but it's a big no from me on moore. dj is phenomenal after the catch but he doesn't really do cam a lot of favors prior to it imo

Route running is something DJ needs to work on, but I still believe he's our most explosive offensive threat -- even though he's not the best overall offensive player

[Navy_football]

I remember I injured my shoulder in high school playing football my senior year. Well, when baseball season rolled around I didn't think much of it because it didn't really hurt. Until all of a sudden those off balance throws from deep in the hole (short stop) were one-hopping to first with little to no velocity. In a perfect situation, when I could set my feet and let it rip, I was fine. Double play throws from second were lit ropes. But, that's rarely the case at short and I had to move to third because I was hurting the team. 

I think we're seeing something similar with Cam. He can still throw with good velocity on the short throws, and the ones he can step into. But if he's off balance and hurried, we're seeing a noticeable difference in accuracy and velocity that we haven't seen before. I think alot of it can be attributed to the oline being in his lap, but that's always been the case. He simply can't whip the ball around like he used to. Hopefully an offseason of rest and rehab helps him regain full strength in that arm. In the meantime, a short game with quick routes that he can anticipate is probably his best friend right now. 

[Darvinsun]

4th quarter Cams shoulder is tired and probably in pain from getting hit and throwing so much. The line does not help. The coaches really should come up with better plays to run to save these games since they know Cam shoulder is just thru and the pressure of having to try and win the game with his arm is not happening.

[Carl Spackler]

14 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I remember I injured my shoulder in high school playing football my senior year. Well, when baseball season rolled around I didn't think much of it because it didn't really hurt. Until all of a sudden those off balance throws from deep in the hole (short stop) were one-hopping to first with little to no velocity. In a perfect situation, when I could set my feet and let it rip, I was fine. Double play throws from second were lit ropes. But, that's rarely the case at short and I had to move to third because I was hurting the team. 

I think we're seeing something similar with Cam. He can still throw with good velocity on the short throws, and the ones he can step into. But if he's off balance and hurried, we're seeing a noticeable difference in accuracy and velocity that we haven't seen before. I think alot of it can be attributed to the oline being in his lap, but that's always been the case. He simply can't whip the ball around like he used to. Hopefully an offseason of rest and rehab helps him regain full strength in that arm. In the meantime, a short game with quick routes that he can anticipate is probably his best friend right now. 

I'm reading a book about the 1944 Army-Navy game right now that you'd probably enjoy. It's slanted toward and contains a hell of a lot more info on West Point than Annapolis, but it's a good read and contains cool cultural content related to the WWII era

[mc52beast]

According to Rappaport his shoulder isn’t so bad that he needs surgery. I wish we were out of playoff contention so Ron might actually sit him but that ain’t happening