Rivera's Biggest Failure - Too Little, Too Late

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, ncfan said:

His biggest downfall of his whole career is his being Too loyal to his guys.

I honestly believe that he wouldn't even fire Shula.  Just look how long it drug out before he fired him.  It wasnt until national stories about the fan base raising money to fly banners over the stadium.

Even all the way down to the players.  It takes more talented guys like Moore or Samuel, injuries to the struggling vet starters, just to get on the field

Voth and Person have both confirmed Rivera was urged to let go of Shula by Gettleman. That was when he famously "stuck his neck out" to keep him.

Richardson was known to be a  Shula champion too. He loved having the Shula name as part of the Panthers. Apparently, that was more important than his actually being good at his job.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Shula was fired when an ownership change was pending.

[t96]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

One of the reasons why I'm looking so much at Dan Campbell right now is that people who talk to him come away saying that he's very, very smart.

I don't think Rivera is.

Mind you, he's got a great defensive mind. He understands super complicated concepts and can rattle off things like coverage responsibilities easily.

So what's the evidence that he's not "smart"?

His decision making.

Marty Mornhinweg is a guy who knows the complicated West Coast Offense backward and forward. But as a head coach with the Lions, under the old OT system (which was pure "sudden death") he once won a coin toss and elected to go on defense first. Predictably, the other team scored and won the game. Mornhinweg later explained his decision as being something about "setting the tone" 

Mind you, I don't believe Rivera is that dumb, but he's done enough things that I think it's reasonable to question his judgment.

I want a head coach who doesn't do dumb things.

Belichick has done that in OT as well. And his decision to bench Butler in the SB may be dumber than anything Rivera has ever done. Even the best coaches have some truly stupid decisions.

[t96]

5 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Yeah that Steelers game was a sh&$-show for our defense, but that was a Thursday night Away game against one of the league’s best offenses...firing him after that would’ve been an incredible overreaction. To us fans, it definitely looked like something was off with our defense during the season but they really weren’t bad statistically and Washington is a brand new D coordinator. That would be like hiring a new Head Coach and firing him midway through the season for a mediocre 4-4 or 4-5 record after a blowout. The defense (and team as a whole) had performed admirably against Baltimore and Tampa in back to back weeks, despite our usual late-game efforts to let teams come back by being conservative.

At this point I’m more than happy with firing Washington because our team has fallen off a cliff largely because of our defense, but you can’t say rationally that he should’ve been fired under those circumstances after the Steelers game when our team was 6-3.

Our D had been terrible before that game too.

[panthers55]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Voth and Person have both confirmed Rivera was urged to let go of Shula by Gettleman. That was when he famously "stuck his neck out" to keep him.

Richardson was known to be a  Shula champion too. He loved having the Shula name as part of the Panthers. Apparently, that was more important than his actually being good at his job.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Shula was fired when an ownership change was pending.

And then was hired by Gettleman in New York to help Shurmur. Couldn't have hated him that much.

[thefuzz]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And then was hired by Gettleman in New York to help Shurmur. Couldn't have hated him that much.

Head coaches typically hire coordinators...but you know that.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

Head coaches typically hire coordinators...but you know that.

Or in this case, glorified quarterback coaches.

[PanthersBigD]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You in the right thread? 

Oh sorry, you meant Campbell. I thought you were talking about Jeff Ireland for a second.

Recommended reading: A matter of when - Dan Campbell on deck for a real shot at an NFL head coaching job

Good article. This quote stood out to me:

Said Campbell: “One of the hardest things for ex-players who are coaches is for them to really drive their players. They’ve been in their shoes. They know how hard it is and how bad some of this stuff sucks and the grind of it. And they somewhat feel sorry or empathy for those players they’re coaching.

"That’s the worst thing that you can do. It really is. I think that gets a lot of coaches who are not hard enough on them.”

[electro's horse]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Richardson was known to be a  Shula champion too. He loved having the Shula name as part of the Panthers. Apparently, that was more important than his actually being good at his job.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Shula was fired when an ownership change was pending.

Shula was a master politician behind the scenes.

Richardson loved that he knew mike's dad and was from that era, and Shula absolutely played that up. 

Like, they would always shoot the poo and talk about calling plays. Richardson thought mike was brilliant because he understood all the play concepts shula used. Of course, these play concepts were thirty years old, but Jerry was an insanely prideful man who thought he still "had it."

Rivera was also legendary at playing Jerry, for similar reasons.

the most effective person in that building though is Thomas Davis, who more or less had Richardson's direct ear and got Gettleman fired. 

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, thefuzz said:

Head coaches typically hire coordinators...but you know that.

The same as head coaches fire coordinators. But if it relevant that Gettleman told Rivera to fire Shula then it is just as likely he told Shurmur to hire Shula.

Logic 101

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, t96 said:

Our D had been terrible before that game too.

I think Rivera genuinely believed that Pittsburgh game was an anomaly. That's why he didn't place any importance on the team reviewing the film.

But as with so many other decisions and judgement calls in Rivera's career, he was wrong.

Honestly, that's one of the reasons I'm ready to part ways with Rivera. It's not that he's always too conservative or always too aggressive or always any one thing; it's just that whichever path he seems to take has an unfortunate tendency to be the wrong one.

He's just not wise enough to be a head coach.

[thefuzz]

3 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

The same as head coaches fire coordinators. But if it relevant that Gettleman told Rivera to fire Shula then it is just as likely he told Shurmur to hire Shula.

Logic 101

He could have put his foot down, he didn't.  He also said he didn't want to be that type of GM...and he wasn't.

I can't imagine he's changed his stripes that much.

Logic 201.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Shula was a master politician behind the scenes.

Richardson loved that he knew mike's dad and was from that era, and Shula absolutely played that up. 

Like, they would always shoot the poo and talk about calling plays. Richardson thought mike was brilliant because he understood all the play concepts shula used. Of course, these play concepts were thirty years old, but Jerry was an insanely prideful man who thought he still "had it."

Rivera was also legendary at playing Jerry, for similar reasons.

the most effective person in that building though is Thomas Davis, who more or less had Richardson's direct ear and got Gettleman fired. 

That's not hard to believe.

No one is so easily BS'd as someone who believes they're smarter than they truly are.

[electro's horse]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

The same as head coaches fire coordinators. But if it relevant that Gettleman told Rivera to fire Shula then it is just as likely he told Shurmur to hire Shula.

Logic 101

he could absolutely believe Shula would be useful in a diminished role, which is all he's doing in NY. That's Shurmur's offense up there. 

Shula was brought in the same way JStew was: just to help them transition.

Plus, that last name, the Maras, etc

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, thefuzz said:

He could have put his foot down, he didn't.  He also said he didn't want to be that type of GM...and he wasn't.

I can't imagine he's changed his stripes that much.

Logic 201.

Rivera finally made a decision that should have been made long before that because he knew his job could be in jeopardy with a new owner taking the reins.

Ass Saving 101