Muhsin Muhammad dropping truth bombs.

[Silent Majority]

1 minute ago, emcannon said:

I mean I directly quoted dude's comment, so I imagine you can figure out who I was referring to.

which is why I asked. On this board dude you'd be surprised.

[FugAllY'all]

The term Moose is looking for here is "attention to detail". I don't believe you have to be a grumpy gus like the Belichicks and Sabans of the world to impress the importance of "not fuging up" on your team, but the guys that do it the best tend to have that demeanor.

To give Ron some credit, his teams have consistently been near the bottom in penalty yards allowed and total penalties. We don't turn it over much and guys don't create too many off the field problems (Greg Hardy being the one glaring exception, but that's hardly on Ron). I don't think the problem here is the culture or Ron not holding folks accountable.

[Silent Majority]

10 minutes ago, Billy_T said:

Nobody said it but if Moose happened to be Caucasian you would have flung it out there immediately that's for sure!

again. just stop.

[Johnny Rockets]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That he was talking about players primarily was pretty obvious from the quotes, though I didn't know he mentioned Newton.

He did also state that the coaching staff wasn't accountable either, though. And given that it took Rivera eight years to finally say that maybe the coaching staff had something to do with a loss, I'd say that fact was already known.

The part about Cam that was a bit surprising (as Silent Majority mentioned) was the fact that he said Cam is still the same player he always has been and needs to take his game to the next level. The stuff about being leaders and bringing other players along while you put in the extra work after practice and not worrying about the "fun stuff" was a a bit cringe worthy also. Although no specific names were mentioned, Moose has been down that road before when it comes to Cam. He is hard on him for whatever reason. 

He did address coaches holding players accountable, allowing a certain culture, the issue with clock management (specifically having to call so many time outs and getting plays off), etc. Definitely didn't absolve the coaching staff of blame. 

I enjoy hearing Moose's opinions and try to listen in for the 2 hours he is on each Monday. Don't always agree with him and this is one of those times considering Cam and the offense in general is what is keeping this team respectful. 

[mc52beast]

There’s enough of a veteran presence on this team that what Moose stated shouldn’t be happening. Multiple players have been to pro bowls so the talent is there. No matter how you look at it the finger has to eventually point to Rivera because he is responsible for what you see on game day.

[Proudiddy]

I dont get the criticism of Cam at all...  he is great and has made other guys around him better...  hell, he made Funchess fool people into thinking he might be a starting receiver lol.  He's made the OL look way better than what they actually are, ANNNND last but not least, he has carried Ron tk greatness his entire tenure here.

Idk what Moose's deal is if this is aimed primarily at Cam.

[Tbe]

5 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

I dont get the criticism of Cam at all...  he is great and has made other guys around him better...  hell, he made Funchess fool people into thinking he might be a starting receiver lol.  He's made the OL look way better than what they actually are, ANNNND last but not least, he has carried Ron tk greatness his entire tenure here.

Idk what Moose's deal is if this is aimed primarily at Cam.

I get it. Cam is a lead by example guy. I remember him saying that in an interview years ago. Cam doesn’t seem to be great at holding people directly accountable. 

Ive heard stories of Brady, Brees, Big Ben, and Matty Ice kicking players off the practice field for not lining up properly. 

For good or bad, that’s not Cam. He is not confrontational.

[Proudiddy]

4 minutes ago, Tbe said:

I get it. Cam is a lead by example guy. I remember him saying that in an interview years ago. Cam doesn’t seem to be great at holding people directly accountable. 

Ive heard stories of Brady, Brees, Big Ben, and Matty Ice kicking players off the practice field for not lining up properly. 

For good or bad, that’s not Cam. He is not confrontational.

I do believe for the most part he is a lead-by-example-style leader, but coincidentally enough, we're discussing this issue the same week mics caught Cam holding Trai Turner accountable for being a dumbass and costing us a timeout.

I think Moose has his opinions, and this seems to be based more on who he likes rather than what he knows.  And being that we're all making these assumptions with no inside knowledge, I think the lack of accountability starts at the top and works its wat down.  It's the coach's responsibility to set the tone and the culture of a locker room on what is and isn't acceptable and what will and won't be tolerated.  Players shouldn't always have to self-police...  and a lot of the issues since Ron has been here lends itself to the idea that players have no fear of being held accountable or suffering consequences for poor job performance.  That all falls on the coaches.  Cam can pull guys up all day (and has) or carry the team to any and every win, or he can even rip into guys for mistakes, but if the coach doesn't reinforce that, what difference does it make?

Ron would rather put a guy on IR before he has to tell him he is demoting him.  Ron would rather demote Richard Rodgers long enough to keep him out of the public eye than to fire him, only to turn around and promote him back to being a positional coach when he feels he can.  That's why the players play with such a lack of urgency and responsibility.

[rico6]

Yeah I didn’t get as many “truth bombs” moreso than digs on certain players (specifically Cam) Steve Smith hates Cam too for some odd reason. 

The fact he more or less stated that Cam has remained virtually the same player since drafted is highly disappointing. If he had anything comparative to the talent of Cam Newton tossing the rock he’d have a few rings and might be in discussion of Canton. 

@Tbe Cam would be crucified for pulling anything like Manning or Brady (to an extent even Luke Keuchly) for public berating of teammates. I doubt it’s his lack of being confrontational (which is also by all accounts not true) as to why he’s not vocally brazen towards others, but moreso the backlash he would receive.

[Mr. Scot]

46 minutes ago, Johnny Rockets said:

The part about Cam that was a bit surprising (as Silent Majority mentioned) was the fact that he said Cam is still the same player he always has been and needs to take his game to the next level. The stuff about being leaders and bringing other players along while you put in the extra work after practice and not worrying about the "fun stuff" was a a bit cringe worthy also. Although no specific names were mentioned, Moose has been down that road before when it comes to Cam. He is hard on him for whatever reason. 

He did address coaches holding players accountable, allowing a certain culture, the issue with clock management (specifically having to call so many time outs and getting plays off), etc. Definitely didn't absolve the coaching staff of blame. 

I enjoy hearing Moose's opinions and try to listen in for the 2 hours he is on each Monday. Don't always agree with him and this is one of those times considering Cam and the offense in general is what is keeping this team respectful. 

I hadn't heard any of it, so thanks.

I think it's tough for former players to criticize current players sometimes.

Granted, Garcia can do it, but he's kind of a tool.

[X-Clown]

15 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

.  Players shouldn't always have to self-police...  and a lot of the issues since Ron has been here lends itself to the idea that players have no fear of being held accountable or suffering consequences for poor job performance. 

Except for serious matters, like not wearing a tie on the road

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, Cary Kollins said:

I mean, go back to the tape and look at how many times Elder or Munnerlyn had a 7 yard cushion, gave up the easy completion, and then whiffed on the tackle. It's like what's the point of a 7 yard cushion if you're just going to spaz out and miss the tackle anyway.

Excellent point!

[panthers55]

I wonder if Moose is talking to players or simply listening to player interviews and coach pressers. I really doubt Rivera is ok with mistakes when in his presser yesterday he said we made too many critical mistakes and said both the players and coaches needed to change. Seems he said the same thing Moose did except he did hold everyone accountable including himself.

[bigdog10]

2 hours ago, Pantha-kun said:

Our pass coverage is so shitty we might as well blitz everyone to formulate some sort of pass rush

Wilks knew this last year but everyone thought it was due to him having too much trust in his secondary guys. It was actually the inverse. He blitzed to minimize the time these guys had to cover.