FYI... Ron Rivera did not play for the field goal on final drive

[Car123]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

What percentage of the time have rosters built by Marty Hurney made the postseason?

Hint: It's the same answer as in your post.

if you ask the same question about rosters built by Dave Gettleman though, you get a very different answer.

I don't blame Hurney for 2002, 2004, and 2007.

2002 was a great turn around. Successful season.

2004 - 7-9 after injuries to Steve Smith and other pro bowl players.

2007 - 7-9 after the starting qb went down for the season. Saints wouldn't sniff the playoffs if Brees was out for the year.

Irrational posters will put these seasons all on Hurney.

I blame Hurney for 2006, 2009, 2010.

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, Car123 said:

I don't blame Hurney for 2002, 2004, and 2007 .

2002 was a great turn around. Successful season.

2004 - 7-9 after injuries to Steve Smith and other pro bowl players.

2007 - 7-9 after the starting qb went down for the season.

Irrational posters will put these seasons all on Hurney.

I blame Hurney for 2006, 2009, 2010.

Yes, I know. Hurney good. Gettleman bad. If things went wrong, it was never Hurney's fault. Heck, Gettleman probably somehow did something to make the negative years in Hurney's first go round happen 

It's funny because prior to this season, a Hurney fan (I forget who) asked me to state for the record that whatever happened this year, Hurney deserved all the credit.

(I'm guessing he had higher expectations and thought he was trapping me into something at the time)

Regardless, I said yes, and not because I had low expectations for this year. I actually thought we'd be a lot better than we've turned out.

I said yes because that's how it works. The GM and the coach have final say on the roster every season. Lets repeat that with emphasis: final say on the roster every single season. It doesn't matter who the holdovers are or who picked them. The roster is what they make it on an annual basis.

If this had turned out to be a solid year, I wouldn't be trying to spin it like so many have done here, bending over backwards to give Hurney credit for everything positive and blame Gettleman for everything negative. I don't think some of you folks realize just how stupid that makes you look, but hey, be you.

The reality is that the combination of Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera register isn't very good. the combination of Dave Gettleman and Ron Rivera was actually pretty successful, but thanks to our dumbass former owner, that went bye bye. We now have to live with where we are.

And where we are right now is that its time to get new leadership.

[tiger7_88]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

So, now that heads have cooled a bit, I admit I was wrong about that final drive. The Carolina Panthers did not play for the field goal. They did actually try for the first down.

Now do their first two trips inside the 10 yard line in the 1st quarter.

[Car123]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yes, I know. Hurney good. Gettleman bad. If things went wrong, it was never Hurney's fault. Heck, Gettleman probably somehow did something to make the negative years in Hurney's first go round happen 

It's funny because prior to this season, a Hurney fan (I forget who) asked me to state for the record that whatever happened this year, Hurney deserved all the credit.

(I'm guessing he had higher expectations and thought he was trapping me into something at the time)

Regardless, I said yes, and not because I had low expectations for this year. I actually thought we'd be a lot better than we've turned out.

I said yes because that's how it works. The GM and the coach have final say on the roster every season. It doesn't matter who the holdovers are or who picked them. The roster is what they make it on an annual basis.

If this had turned out to be a solid year, I wouldn't be trying to spin it like so many have done here, bending over backwards to give Hurney credit for everything positive and blame Gettleman for everything negative. I don't think some of you folks realize just how stupid that makes you look, but hey, be you.

The reality is that the combination of Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera register isn't very good. the combination of Dave Gettleman and Ron Rivera was actually pretty successful, but thanks to our dumbass former owner, that went bye bye. We now have to live with where we are.

And where we are right now is that its time to get new leadership.

Gettleman deserved to be fired. By the way, how are the New York Giants doing? Gettleman must have them planning logistics for the playoffs.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Car123 said:

Gettleman deserved to be fired. By the way, how are the New York Giants doing? Gettleman must have them planning logistics for the playoffs.

Yeah, all that winning division titles and going to the Super Bowl sure sucked 

I mean maybe if he had only had three successful seasons out of eleven, he'd have deserved to be retained. That's obviously the measure of true success, right? 

As to the Giants, I'm not really following them that closely but I know they're having a bad season and have been dumping players. Not exactly a shock given that they were the second worst team in the NFL last year.

But hey, at least they look this finish this season with a better record than they had last year.

Us? Not so much.

[Car123]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah, all that winning division titles and going to the Super Bowl sure sucked 

I mean maybe if he had only had three successful seasons out of eleven, he'd have deserved to be retained. That's obviously the measure of true success, right? 

As to the Giants, I'm not really following them that closely but I know they're having a bad season and have been dumping players. Not exactly a shock given that they were the second worst team in the NFL last year.

But hey, at least they look this finish this season with a better record than they had last year.

Us? Not so much.

Yet you call our 2002 season a failure. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Yet you call our 2002 season a failure. 

And I'll call this season for the Giants a failure.

That's how it works when you're not trying to spin things.

[Car123]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And I'll call this season for the Giants a failure.

That's how it works when you're not trying to spin things.

1-15 to 7-9 is a huge turnaround. If the Browns win 2-3 more games their season would be a success.

[TheRed]

Looks like Igo has gone the way of the rest of the local Panthers media in refusing to ask the tough questions of this coaching staff.

Pitiful.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Car123 said:

1-15 to 7-9 is a huge turnaround. If the Browns win 2-3 more games their season would be a success.

Funny you should use that as an example given that the Browns fired their head coach 

Maybe they have the right idea 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

You think this year's free agency crop shows competence? And Clark is your best example?

I'd add that our draft success this year is essentially two guys. Nobody else is showing up. The one other guy who looked like he might has been stuck in the coach's doghouse for weeks.

Look dude, I get what your schtick is. You defended Mike Shula and Ken Dorsey to the death. Now you're gonna defend Rivera and Hurney the same way. You basically just pick whoever is unpopular and try to troll people with them. And you throw in "wall of text" replies to try to make it look meaningful.

Maybe that makes you feel like a big deal. Don't know. Don't care. I'm not bored enough to bother debating one of your attempted troll jobs today.

There is no schtick here or no trolling. Your favorite debating tactic is to try and make anyone debating you appear to be extreme and a troll. But you didn't address the issue or present any tangible evidence to prove how bad Hurney has been since returning. Then you avoid the whole subject by going back to the Shula issue. I am not going to explain for the hundreth time why I defended him when the criticism in my mind was at times unfair and skewed like the same people who said Cam never had the talent he needed to succeed then criticized Shula although he had the same talent. But let's not rehash that again. I can come up with just as convincing arguments for why Hurney and Rivera are doing a good job as you can saying they are bad. If I am a troll then so are you. If my opinions are unpopular on this site that means I am probably on the right path. After all the idea that Rivera tried for a field goal was all the rage on Sunday and Monday and is only being debunked today. I took the "unpopular" view that he didn't and was right once again. Keep the extreme characterizations if that keeps you happy but knowledgeable posters see beyond your clumsy attempts to disparage others.

[trueblade]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And where we are right now is that its time to get new leadership.

We can divvy up credit and blame between MH and DG all we want, but at the end of it all, this is where we are at. Its not about the past. It's about a simple question. Is Marty Hurney the absolute best person who could be the Panthers GM in 2019 and beyond or could the Panthers do better? For whatever Marty may have accomplished or not accomplished in the past, at this point, I'm inclined to believe there's a better option.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Really? I’d put 2017 draft class above this one without a thought including a K to replace/save money from Gano. I love Moore and Donte, but that’s it even with 2 3rds to start.

I’d argue that this FA class is meh and even guys like Coleman and Oher far exceeded Clark and Poe.

I’m not horribly mad at either Hurney 2.0 or Gettleman. I think we’ve got enough talent now and had enough talent in 2015 to win it all. It’s the coaching that hasn’t been able to get us over the hump. Wade Philips so confounded Shula and Rivera it wasn’t funny but we sure as heck had a talented crew in 2015 even with KB’s injury.

I think he probably knows better than that but he's making a weak attempt at trolling.

I'm only messing with him because I'm in a mood 

[TheRed]

If this were Rivera's second or even maybe third season I could possibly begin to hear you on this.

But we're nearing a decade of learning how to be a head coach.

It just baffles me that you are this eager to make excuses for coaching, but when it comes time to pile on Cam if he has a bad game you are first in line.