Are defensive head coaches a thing of the NFL past?

[GoobyPls]

Pretty much 

 

And for those calling Belichick a defensive head coach, keep in mind he designs the offense and calls the offensive plays on occasion. Belichick is involved in every facet of the team  

[bigdog10]

No, it’s cyclical. 

As soon as all of these coach hungry teams start hiring unknowns from the offensive side of the ball, one or two teams will go get a really good defensive coach and start the transition back. The rules will lax a bit once the fans get tired of these big 12 scoring type games and then, the teams that had the foresight To hire the up and coming defensive coach will look like a genius. 

[JARROD]

2 hours ago, Hoenheim said:

• Rams - Sean McVay
• Saints - Sean Payton
• Cheifs - Andy Reid

 

... you tell me

Only the Saints have been relevant in that group, and each time they were they had a defense and a running game to go with their HOF quarterback.

usually it’s been Belicheck,..

i believe he’s a defensive coach,...

[JARROD]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

Defense used to win championships, as such defensive minded head coaches were desired.

 

Now with the league rules handcuffing the defense so much , is that no longer the case? 

 

Are offensive minded head coaches the new normal?

Belicheck, Pete Carroll and company say hello,...

Gary Kubiak was offensive but he won with the best Wade Phillips defense against our sorry coach,..

Mike Tomlin says hello,.. Tom Coughlin,..

lets keep going though coaches that won the only relevant game in the NFL the last 10 years.

even the offensive coaches had defenses and running games to compliment their passing game.

Pederson was a quarterback but his Defense and running game really carried the playoffs without Wentz— gee he was worth nothing being that his team won the whole thing without him.

defense, running game, win the turnover battle,..and have an efficient offense will win over great passing game no defense in the Super Bowl every time.

[Castavar]

I think defensive head coaches still have a place in this league if they:

1) Aren't a pussy

2) Hire a proven high quality OC to run that side of the ball

3) Also knows a lot about special teams

4) Is willing to adapt

It's those defensive head coaches that still think defense can single handily win them games that are getting left behind (and there's still a lot of them out there).

[Snake]

It depends on what you are asking. If you're talking about someone like Rivera, Tod Bowles, or Mike Zimmer then yes they have been schemed out by the NFL. You are just not going to win with a old school approach of run the ball and limit downs. You need a more aggressive approach because of how the rules work. 

 

With all that said Riveras biggest problem was poor hiring and management. The only reason he kept his job was that JR was content on allowing a mediocre job performance. 

 

[FugAllY'all]

You just need to understand how defense works in the NFL nowadays. It doesn't matter how many running yards you give up, or really even yards in general. Any team with a decent QB and scheme will move the ball with ease between the 20s against any defense. It's about forcing field goals in the redzone and getting turnovers.

Belichik figured this out a decade ago. You look at the Patriots defensive stats during the '10s and they are generally near the bottom in total defense, but around the top in scoring defense and turnover differential. That's all that matters, keep the ball out of the endzone and capitalize on opportunities to get your hands on it.

[Davidson Deac II]

Defense isn't completely irrelevant.  One reason New Orleans is considered the best bet to win the Super Bowl is that their defensive play has improved significantly since the first week of the season.  Rush defense wise, they are tied for first in YPC, and their pass defense has improved a little since getting shredded early in the season.  

[JARROD]

1 hour ago, HornetsSting said:

To add to it, compare that list to..

 

Cardinls- Wilks

Bills- Sean Mcd

 Panthers- Ron Rivera

Evidence is plain as day

For regular season wins this year so far maybe,.. however which facts are you referencing?

again, besides Sean Payton on the other list,.. what offensive coaches have won a Super Bowl the last 10 years.

of the offensive , which one of them won without a top 15 defense and top 10 running game?

Sean McVae looks like a great coach, but he’s won nothing yet. Keep in mind also his defense and Running Back are playing pretty good outside of allowing a 50 burger with the Chiefs,.. Gurley is an MVP candidate and the defense wins the close ones,.. all the ingredients but he’s won nothing yet

Andy Reid has won nothing yet,.. an NFC Championship? Ron Rivera did that,.. so did John Fox,.. a couple of times.

So what facts are clear again?

[Davidson Deac II]

19 minutes ago, JARROD said:

For regular season wins this year so far maybe,.. however which facts are you referencing?

again, besides Sean Payton on the other list,.. what offensive coaches have won a Super Bowl the last 10 years.

of the offensive , which one of them won without a top 15 defense and top 10 running game?

Sean McVae looks like a great coach, but he’s won nothing yet. Keep in mind also his defense and Running Back are playing pretty good outside of allowing a 50 burger with the Chiefs,.. Gurley is an MVP candidate and the defense wins the close ones,.. all the ingredients but he’s won nothing yet

Andy Reid has won nothing yet,.. an NFC Championship? Ron Rivera did that,.. so did John Fox,.. a couple of times.

So what facts are clear again?

Pedersen is an offensive coach I think.  But you are mostly correct, not many coaches on the offensive side have won the big game recently.  Ironic since the 80's and 90's were dominated by offensive coaches like Gibbs, Shanahan, and Walsh, and this was back when teams were actually allowed to play defense.  Well, maybe not dominated, but the offensive guys certainly gave a good showing.  

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Pedersen is an offensive coach I think.  But you are mostly correct, not many coaches on the offensive side have won the big game recently.  Ironic since the 80's and 90's were dominated by offensive coaches like Gibbs, Shanahan, and Walsh, and this was back when teams were actually allowed to play defense.  Well, maybe not dominated, but the offensive guys certainly gave a good showing.  

Coughlin was an offensive coach too.

The problem with looking back though is that you have to account for the rule changes.  They're skewing more and more toward offense each year.

You can still win with a coach who has a defensive background, but it helps an awful lot of they have a great OC (Belichick - McDaniels, for example). But regardless of which side of the ball they made their money on. aggression and boldness are the real keys.  Overly conservative guys like Rivera are gonna have a tough time in the new NFL.

[Davidson Deac II]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Coughlin was an offensive coach too.

The problem with looking back though is that you have to account for the rule changes.  They're skewing more and more toward offense each year.

You can still win with a coach who has a defensive background, but it helps an awful lot of they have a great OC (Belichick - McDaniels, for example). But regardless of which side of the ball they made their money on. aggression and boldness are the real keys.  Overly conservative guys like Rivera are gonna have a tough time in the new NFL.

For now, but that could change quickly.  But you also can't judge based on 11 games.

Defensive coaches have been more successful in recent years.  It could be that with more liberal rules for the offense, success is more difficult on the defensive side, so those coaches are more battle tested.  

Or it could be that a good coach is a good coach regardless of which side of the ball he coached on.  Or it could be the luck of drafting a first ballot hall of famer in the sixth round. 

 

I don't get this Rivera is conservative Mantra. Conservative coaches don't go for two when a xp might get you into ot.  Conservative coaches don't make so many 4th down tries.  Had he been more conservative, we might have come away with 6 points instead of three early in the game.  And we might not have tried for two against the Lions.  Not saying we would have won either game, but the outcome would have been different.  

Rivera's biggest problem imo is performance in crunch time.  He is aggressive when he should be conservative, and conservative when being aggressive might be better.  Well that and he relies to much on a defense that isn't very good right now.  

[bigdog10]

Current landscape of head coaches for what it’s worth:

NFC South:  two offensive and two defensive

NFC East:  four offensive

NFC North:  two offensive and two defensive

NFC West:  two offensive and two defensive. 

AFC South:  Three offensive and one defensive

AFC West:  Two offensive and two defensive

AFC North (pre hue firing):  One offensive, two defensive, one special teams. 

AFC East:  one offensive and three defensive. 

17 offensive

14 defensive

1 special teams. 

Worth noting, it could be argued that the majority of the defensive head coaches are on the hot seat or are having sub par years  

Ron

Quinn

McDermot

Wilks

Bowels

Joseph

Patricia

Vrabel

Lewis

current defensive head coaches with winning records:  Ron, BB, Tomlin, Carrol, Lynn, Zimmer,

current offensive head coaches with winning records:  Payton, McVay, Reid, Reich, Garrett, Jay Gruden, Nagy, Obren. 

[pantherj]

Build a brick wall o-line with plenty of offensive weapons, and save money on the defensive side of the ball. Stop breaking the bank on LBs because they don't have enough of an impact on the game. Collecting high end DTs is totally irrelevant in today's NFL. Yes you want to rush the passer, but that comes way behind weapons and o-line. TD scorers and QB protectors need to be the top priority. Luke is due to count $17 million dollars against our cap next season. Going forward into the future that can't happen again. We need to be a passing team with weapons all over field and an elite o-line. Our budget defense should be aggressive and young. Anything else is bullshit at this point.

If we can find an incredible offensive minded HC then great.