What happened to Ian Thomas

[Mage]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think it's just another example of Ron's stubbornness. Our #2 TE has always essentially been treated like an undersized third OT. Many of us thought that it may have simply been because we didn't have capable TEs behind Greg but now we do. But, we maintain our same old approach.

I haven't been in the "fire Ron" camp until the Steelers game, but I've finally accepted this team will never win the ultimate prize under Ron. The NFL continues to evolve and he doesn't. 

So who do you think we should take off the field to run more #2 TE sets?

Im not even sure I disagree with you.  But I honest to God don’t know who we should be taking off the field.  Funchess?  That would be a leap.

I’m not saying we should keep Rivera but there’s so much complaining about the wrong things.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mage said:

So who do you think we should take off the field to run more #2 TE sets?

Im not even sure I disagree with you.  But I honest to God don’t know who we should be taking off the field.  Funchess?  That would be a leap.

I'm not necessarily saying to run more. I'm saying play Thomas as the #2 TE. When we put Manhertz in the game we might as well just be putting a 3rd OT out there because that's how opposing defenses are treating him.

[Ace_Aladdin]

2 minutes ago, Mage said:

So who do you think we should take off the field to run more #2 TE sets?

Im not even sure I disagree with you.  But I honest to God don’t know who we should be taking off the field.  Funchess?  That would be a leap.

I’m not saying we should keep Rivera but there’s so much complaining about the wrong things.

It would also open up the deep shots for Moore and Samuel running 2TE set for run plays & then hit them with PA. Having CMC negates the effects of losing a WR with his catching ability.

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I think it far more likely that Olsen got healthy.  The snap counts correlate directly.  

Thomas and Manhertz have nearly the season snap count on the season despite Thomas starting three games. That's because Manhertz has leap frogged him to the #2 spot. Manhertz played 12 snaps to Thomas' 2 last week.

[stankowalski]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Igo said:

He ran one bad route and y'all ready to give up on him?

He's made more mistakes than that.  The 2 miscommunications with Cam were pretty big deals in that game.  He's only a rookie so he'll hopefully learn.

[Mage]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not necessarily saying to run more. I'm saying play Thomas as the #2 TE. When we put Manhertz in the game we might as well just be putting a 3rd OT out there because that's how opposing defenses are treating him.

Without stats or film evidence, I’m gonna say it’s very unlikely defenders are differentiating between whether Manhertz or Thomas is in the game.  Nobody cares about Thomas

 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Mage said:

Without stats or film evidence, I’m gonna say it’s very unlikely defenders are differentiating between whether Manhertz or Thomas is in the game.

 

They almost certainly aren't because they know that we simply don't see the #2 TE as a receiving option in our offense. That position is used almost exclusively as a blocker for us. That's on the staff, not the players. When I say "play Thomas" part of what I'm saying is stop treating the #2 TE position as an undersized 3rd OT. 

[Ace_Aladdin]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They almost certainly aren't because they know that we simply don't see the #2 TE as a receiving option in our offense. That position is used almost exclusively as a blocker for us. That's on the staff, not the players. When I say "play Thomas" part of what I'm saying is stop treating the #2 TE position as an undersized 3rd OT. 

It also has a  domino effect that opens up things for other positions. Opposing LBs and S would be forced into to coverage instead of doubling. This will open up more space for CMC in flat routes and more single coverage for deep shots. 

[rodeo]

he caused 2 interceptions by stopping on routes and then after that game i never noticed him again.

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

another huddle favorite that turns out to be trash lol

[Mage]

55 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They almost certainly aren't because they know that we simply don't see the #2 TE as a receiving option in our offense. That position is used almost exclusively as a blocker for us. That's on the staff, not the players. When I say "play Thomas" part of what I'm saying is stop treating the #2 TE position as an undersized 3rd OT. 

But that is what most teams do.  Most teams barely play their #2 TE (and trust me, a lot of teams have #2 TEs on the same level as Thomas - he's nothing special as of now) outside of a blocking role.  We're complaining about a "problem" that isn't exclusive to Rivera/Turner.

Chiefs #2 TE Demetrius Harris is no different than how we use Manhertz.  He's played 249 snaps (more than Manhertz) and hasn't even recorded a reception this year. This is how most teams treat their #2 TE unless they have a guy talented enough that warrants being used more.  Even the Rams rarely used their #2 TE until this past week when they had to because they had to replace what Kupp offered them on the inside (before Kupp's injury, he had 13 catches on 21 targets for 146 yards).

The Saints #1 TE in snaps Josh Hill only has 12 receptions for 160 yards - he's a blocker first for them.  I just listed the 3 best offenses in the NFL who use one of their 2 tight ends as a blocker far more than a receiver.  

This isn't a Rivera thing.  It is a league-wide thing.  Teams value blocking more from their #2 TEs because they'll usually only ever see the field in those kind of tight, run-based packages.  So how does Rivera/Turner seeing the role the same way as most teams do somehow make him this lousy, not up to date coach (not saying he is up to date, but this is not the reason why)?  The reason why teams do it is because usually, there aren't many situations that warrant using a #2 TE in a receiving role rather than just putting an actual WR on the field.  

The most yards Thomas had in a game this year was 38 yards.  Dropped a touchdown.  Ran routes wrong to the point they led to turnovers.  So what reason has he given you to deserve more playing time on the field, in a receiving role, and in a way that would actually make a difference?  This isn't a Samuel situation, a guy who has produced every time he's been given an opportunity.  Thomas hasn't even done that.  I'm not seeing the problem here (and if there is, it is minor as hell because Thomas ain't that good).

IMO there is nothing wrong with the passing game right now other than I'd say we need to lessen Funchess' reps.  My biggest complaints would be the defense and how quick we tend to get away from running the ball.  But the amount of time Thomas plays?  Who cares?

[beastson]

They say Thomas, a rookie, caused 2 INT and we won that game

Funchess, a vet, dropped how many passes and we lo... nvm

[Navy_football]

38 minutes ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

another huddle favorite that turns out to be trash lol

Or another potential playmaker that never sees the field because he's young and inexperienced, even though he needs to play to get better. And then when he's in his 4th season with little or no playing time to his resume, he becomes a journeyman in the NFL that never gets a real chance. 

[cbully]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

He ran one bad route and y'all ready to give up on him?

Exactly! These guys are morons at times. He did very well considering his experience. How soon we forget the former options who are no longer here. They praised those guys. Hell they respected on based on his body build. Thomas is a solid option and a TE like him on a team like the saints or Falcons would bring the tears.