Panthers WAIVE CJ Anderson

[Mage]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

Probably hilarious because you “white noised” my statements which were direct statements about his attributes against what we are left with. And why it limits us. But just keep ignoring it. 

How did I white noise it?  The person I quoted was not you.  I was responding to the answer he gave me, not yours.

But the reason I didn't acknowledge it is because I disagree with him being an above average receiving RB, but that is a matter of opinion I guess.  Despite the drop against the Falcons I do agree his hands aren't bad, but he's not dynamic out of the backfield.  At best he's a Stewart-type receiver (with better hands obviously), which is taking some dump offs here and there but he isn't splitting out of the backfield or anything like that.  Especially among back-up RBs (who are typically good coming out of the backfield as receivers), I'd consider him below average.  Ekeler is a good example of a great receiving back.

[Mr. Scot]

21 minutes ago, Toomers said:

 Now you talking about a different issue. If CJ wanted out, there is no issue. I would understand from both sides why they moved on. And said so in this thread. We are going by him and others saying he didn’t force a move. That changes everything. 

Both Roaring Riot and Anderson himself have stated that was not the case (per a post earlier tonight when Anderson was on social media).

[Mage]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Actually I listed three things about him, and there are more. Toomers did as well. You choosing not to listen to them doesn't actually invalidate them at all.

Maybe it'll help if these guys explain it.

How CJ Anderson helps the Panthers

You might take note of their mention of Broncos runningbacks that have thousand-yard seasons to their credit (that other one was kinda good).

Also mentioned in the clip: Anderson is quite adept at pass blocking. This past game, we tried to use Christian McCaffrey as a pass blocker. Didn't go so well.

I'd add their discussion of his football IQ doesn't exactly support Rayzors theory that maybe he didn't know the offense. Worth noting here that under Kubiak, the Broncos ran a West Coast attack. West Coast terminology is generally considered to be among the most complex in the league.

You listed "accomplishments" by him (ie. starting for a Super Bowl team, as if that defense didn't carry them; Chris Clark started for that same Super Bowl team and you weren't defending him when we were gonna put him at LT, I remember), but no on-field attributes.  So I didn't ignore anything.  You didn't name anything that made him good on the field.  

And I never said CJ Anderson didn't/couldn't help the Panthers, so again that some Panthers analysts telling me that isn't going to change anything.  I don't know how many times I got to say it.  I'm not saying CAP > CJ or I agree with this move.  I'm saying it isn't a big deal.  Do you honest to God think CAP to CJ in the hypothetical that CMC gets hurt is the difference between us winning a playoff game?

It's a whatever move.  Agree, disagree, but how can ya'll not see how ridiculous the level of outrage is?  It isn't a big deal.  Nobody is gonna this offseason be like, "damn we coulda won that playoff game if we had CJ Anderson".  

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, Mage said:

How did I white noise it?  The person I quoted was not you.  I was responding to the answer he gave me, not yours.

But the reason I didn't acknowledge it is because I disagree with him being an above average receiving RB, but that is a matter of opinion I guess.  Despite the drop against the Falcons I do agree his hands aren't bad, but he's not dynamic out of the backfield.  At best he's a Stewart-type receiver (with better hands obviously), which is taking some dump offs here and there but he isn't splitting out of the backfield or anything like that.  Especially among back-up RBs (who are typically good coming out of the backfield as receivers), I'd consider him below average.  Ekeler is a good example of a great receiving back.

 I said average to above average. That’s a fair evaluation of his receiving skills. That’s all he has to be. Not a liability in one area. 

  If we needed a “great” receiving back, they could line either Moore or Samuel up there. You list one 3rd down back as an example who is a completely different type of player. 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, Mage said:

You listed "accomplishments" by him (ie. starting for a Super Bowl team, as if that defense didn't carry them; Chris Clark started for that same Super Bowl team and you weren't defending him when we were gonna put him at LT, I remember), but no on-field attributes.  So I didn't ignore anything.  You didn't name anything that made him good on the field.  

And I never said CJ Anderson didn't/couldn't help the Panthers, so again that some Panthers analysts telling me that isn't going to change anything.  I don't know how many times I got to say it.  I'm not saying CAP > CJ or I agree with this move.  I'm saying it isn't a big deal.  Do you honest to God think CAP to CJ in the hypothetical that CMC gets hurt is the difference between us winning a playoff game?

Know how I know you didn't watch the clip?

Both Toomers and I have given you very specific facts showing Anderson has proven himself as a player in this league while Artis-Payne has not. You can try to spin them and/or just put your fingers in your ears all you want. Doesn't help your argument.

Bottom Line: Yes, if McCaffrey were to get hurt, Anderson has accomplished enough in this league to show that he could be an effective runningback for us. Would he do everything that McCaffrey does? No, but he doesn't have to. We have other guys that could pick up his role in the passing game.

The notion that it "makes no difference" and we're equally okay with Artis-Payne as our primary backup is just ludicrous.

[Toomers]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Both Roaring Riot and Anderson himself have stated that was not the case (per a post earlier tonight when Anderson was on social media).

Exactly. You know my first reaction was no big deal because I figured the only way we did this was because he wanted out. Still can’t believe we wasted money for this option. When is the next pat Marty on the back thread? 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

Exactly. You know my first reaction was no big deal because I figured the only way we did this was because he wanted out. Still can’t believe we wasted money for this option. When is the next pat Marty on the back thread? 

I gotta feeling those are on hold for a little bit, at least for a few days. Heck, one of the most popular questions on here over the last few weeks has been why we don't involve Anderson more.

Said it before: Back end of the season - when fatigue sets in and injury becomes a bigger deal - is a time when I would think you'd want more depth rather than less.

I really just don't get this move.

[Mage]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Know how I know you didn't watch the clip?

Both Toomers and I have given you very specific facts showing Anderson has proven himself as a player in this league while Artis-Payne has not. You can try to spin them and/or just put your fingers in your ears all you want. Doesn't help your argument.

Bottom Line: Yes, if McCaffrey were to get hurt, Anderson has accomplished enough in this league to show that he could be an effective runningback for us. Would he do everything that McCaffrey does? No, but he doesn't have to. We have other guys that could pick up his role in the passing game.

The notion that it "makes no difference" and we're equally okay with Artis-Payne as our primary backup is just ludicrous.

You didn't have to be James Bond to figure that out.  I would have straight up told you I didn't watch the clip.  It was a question I asked you, not Panthers analysts under a video "How will CJ help us".

And once again, I never said Anderson wouldn't be an effective RB for us.  My point this entire time has been is this really worth getting in a fuss over?  And again I ask you.  Do you honestly think CAP -> CJ is the difference between winning and losing a playoff game?  Anderson has averaged 4.1 YPC his last 3 years.  Even if lets say CAP sucks, he's surely gonna average somewhere around 3.9-4.0 with Cam at QB.  And ultimately both guys would probably get out-rushed by Cam.  

That is all my point has been.  You guys keep twisting things.  Nobody is saying Anderson would be ineffective.  I'm saying he wouldn't be nearly effective to the point that people should be getting this pissed off about it.  Releasing CJ Anderson does not make a GM bad, like come on now.  He's a replaceable player, hence why the Broncos didn't try to bring him back despite it being cheap as hell.  

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, Mage said:

You didn't have to be James Bond to figure that out.  I would have straight up told you I didn't watch the clip.  It was a question I asked you, not Panthers analysts under a video "How will CJ help us".

And once again, I never said Anderson wouldn't be an effective RB for us.  My point this entire time has been is this really worth getting in a fuss over?  And again I ask you.  Do you honestly think CAP -> CJ is the difference between winning and losing a playoff game?  Anderson has averaged 4.1 YPC his last 3 years.  Even if lets say CAP sucks, he's surely gonna average somewhere around 3.9-4.0 with Cam at QB.  And ultimately both guys would probably get out-rushed by Cam.  

That is all my point has been.  You guys keep twisting things.  Nobody is saying Anderson would be ineffective.  I'm saying he wouldn't be nearly effective to the point that people should be getting this pissed off about it.  Releasing CJ Anderson does not make a GM bad, like come on now.  He's a replaceable player, hence why the Broncos didn't try to bring him back despite it being cheap as hell.  

Here's the tip: The clip doesn't feature "Panthers analysts". It was posted on the Panthers website but it's from NFL Network.

One of the people speaking on it is Terrell Davis, a guy who knows a thing or two about both runningbacks and the Broncos. I'll take his assessment of how good Anderson is over yours. It's also not that hard to find video of other analysts discussing Anderson either. Their opinions are also pretty positive.

You're severely underestimating Anderson and overestimating Artis-Payne to justify the notion that this "isn't a big deal". As such, your analysis is way way off.

I'd add that if, as you say, this is not worth so much discussion, why are you still discussing it?

[Toomers]

4 minutes ago, Mage said:

You didn't have to be James Bond to figure that out.  I would have straight up told you I didn't watch the clip.  It was a question I asked you, not Panthers analysts under a video "How will CJ help us".

And once again, I never said Anderson wouldn't be an effective RB for us.  My point this entire time has been is this really worth getting in a fuss over?  And again I ask you.  Do you honestly think CAP -> CJ is the difference between winning and losing a playoff game?  Anderson has averaged 4.1 YPC his last 3 years.  Even if lets say CAP sucks, he's surely gonna average somewhere around 3.9-4.0 with Cam at QB.  And ultimately both guys would probably get out-rushed by Cam.  

That is all my point has been.  You guys keep twisting things.  Nobody is saying Anderson would be ineffective.  I'm saying he wouldn't be nearly effective to the point that people should be getting this pissed off about it.  Releasing CJ Anderson does not make a GM bad, like come on now.  He's a replaceable player, hence why the Broncos didn't try to bring him back despite it being cheap as hell.  

So replacing CJ Anderson with Tavares Cadet, for more money, doesn’t make a GM look bad?  If he’s as replaceable as you say, why did that GM sign him in the first place. There’s a mistake somewhere in here. 

   

[Mage]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Here's the tip: The clip doesn't feature "Panthers analysts". It was posted on the Panthers website but it's from NFL Network.

One of the people speaking on it is Terrell Davis, a guy who knows a thing or two about both runningbacks and the Broncos. I'll take his assessment of how good Anderson is over yours. it's not hard to find video of other analysts discussing Anderson either. Their opinions are also pretty positive.

You're severely underestimating Anderson and overestimating Artis-Payne to justify the notion that this "isn't a big deal". As such, your analysis is way way off.

I'd add that if, as you say, this is not worth so much discussion, why are you still discussing it?

So do you think the difference between Cap - > CJ is a playoff win vs playoff loss?

And OK.  Take his assessment.  I'll take the assessment of NFL teams that completely ignored Anderson, including the Broncos, during the free agency process until the Panthers offered him a cheap contract in May.  Something you have conveniently ignored, yet I'm supposed to be swayed because of Terrell Davis.  As if former players have always proven to be right.  Ronde Barber the GOAT analyst.

And nobody is underestimating Anderson.  He's a 4.1 YPC back.  CAP would probably be, at least, around 3.9.  The difference between the two is negligible.  So there is a negiligble difference between two backs who would only see a lot of playing time if CMC got hurt.  And people in this thread are making it seem like the end of the world.

And I never said it wasn't worth discussing,  I said I didn't understand the level of outrage towards it (hence why the thread is so long - 99.9% outrage).  CJ was just a back-up RB (not that important) with an All-Pro RB starting.  So yes, I think people acting as if him no longer being on the team suddenly means we're incapable of winning a playoff game is an overreaction.  Do you think that if CMC gets hurt, CJ Anderson would have been the difference between us winning and losing a playoff game if the alternative is Cap?

[Mage]

3 minutes ago, Toomers said:

So replacing CJ Anderson with Tavares Cadet, for more money, doesn’t make a GM look bad?  If he’s as replaceable as you say, why did that GM sign him in the first place. There’s a mistake somewhere in here. 

   

Stop twisting my words.  "Does not make a GM bad" (what I said) and "does not make a GM look bad" (what you said) are two entirely different phrases.  Yes, it is a mistake.  I've multiple times said I don't agree with this move.  But people are overreacting if they think this suddenly makes a bad GM (unless you already felt he was).  It's just a back-up RB.  Hell some people still don't agree that we took one in the 1st.  Now I'm supposed to be angry that we released a back-up at that position?  

And what do you mean?  Just because you are replaceable doesn't mean you don't belong on an NFL roster, hence why he signed him.  There are replaceable players on every team.  The Broncos replaced CJ Anderson easy.  He's an OK RB, and it sucks he's no longer our back-up, but people are getting bent up about this for no reason.  It isn't a big deal.

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, Mage said:

Stop twisting my words.  "Does not make a GM bad" (what I said) and "does not make a GM look bad" (what you said) are two entirely different phrases.  Yes, it is a mistake.  I've multiple times said I don't agree with this move.  But people are overreacting if they think this suddenly makes a bad GM (unless you already felt he was).  It's just a back-up RB.  Hell some people still don't agree that we took one in the 1st.  Now I'm supposed to be angry that we released a back-up at that position?  

And what do you mean?  Just because you are replaceable doesn't mean you don't belong on an NFL roster, hence why he signed him.  There are replaceable players on every team.  The Broncos replaced CJ Anderson easy.  He's an OK RB, and it sucks he's no longer our back-up, but people are getting bent up about this for no reason.  It isn't a big deal.

Making the team worse by spending more is a problem. That’s why it’s a big deal. 

[Mr. Scot]

14 minutes ago, Mage said:

So do you think the difference between Cap - > CJ is a playoff win vs playoff loss?

And OK.  Take his assessment.  I'll take the assessment of NFL teams that completely ignored Anderson, including the Broncos, during the free agency process until the Panthers offered him a cheap contract in May.  Something you have conveniently ignored, yet I'm supposed to be swayed because of Terrell Davis.  As if former players have always proven to be right.  Ronde Barber the GOAT analyst.

And nobody is underestimating Anderson.  He's a 4.1 YPC back.  CAP would probably be, at least, around 3.9.  The difference between the two is negligible.  So there is a negiligble difference between two backs who would only see a lot of playing time if CMC got hurt.  And people in this thread are making it seem like the end of the world.

And I never said it wasn't worth discussing, stop twisting my words again.  I said I didn't understand the level of outrage towards it (hence why the thread is so long - 99.9% outrage).  CJ was just a back-up RB (not that important) with an All-Pro RB starting.  So yes, I think people acting as if him no longer being on the team suddenly means we're incapable of winning a playoff game is an overreaction.  Do you think that if CMC gets hurt, CJ Anderson would have been the difference between us winning and losing a playoff game if the alternative is Cap?

I've "ignored it" because it didn't happen.

Anderson wasn't a free agent. He was released in mid-April. the Broncos were actually fielding trade offers prior to that but didn't find one to their liking. Within a few days of his release, it was reported that at least eight different teams were pursuing him.

Marty Hurney mentioned in an interview that we were on the phone with his agent very shortly after the Broncos let him go. In the end, the whole process took just a couple of weeks, and a phone call from Jonathan Stewart went a long way towards sealing the deal.

if you doubt me, a quick Google search will confirm everything I've just told you.

So ya see, this whole narrative you've got built up in your head about him sitting and waiting from the start of free agency and nobody calling, yeah... didn't happen.