Gunslinger or Game Manager?

[Zod]

Bad QB or a QB playing bad? I think that was Gantt's question.

I don't know many good QB's who have played their last 6 or so games poorly.

[Cyberjag]

To my thinking gunslinger has more to do with attitude than the success/failure of a play. Gunslingers are the guys who will try to force it into coverage. Game managers will throw it away given the same situation.

I don't know if I agree with that, but it sure makes the "Jake is a gunslinger" argument make a lot more sense.

I think that a bad game manager will throw into coverage because he doesn't see it, while a gunslinger will stick it there because he sees it and doesn't care. To the fan, it's all the same.

[Jaxel]

Orton qualifies as a game manager, Cutler qualifies as a gunslinger correct? Lets look at the numbers.

Orton: 124 comp 194 Atts 1465 yds 63.9% comp 9 TD 1Int

Cutler: 110 comp 172 atts 1201 yds 64% comp 10 TD 7 Int.

Don't think think you have to throw the ball more to be a gunslinger, but Orton takes less risks and protects the ball more. Where as Cutler takes big risks (throwing into double coverages, etc) and gets big rewards.

I think we all agree that Delhomme takes more risks than not.

Delhomme is not a game manager, he's a gunslinger, whether you wish he was or not.

[Mesmer]

I think that the labels are pretty dumb. Really the difference is a QB's ability to pick up his team and carry them, and the difference between that guy and the guy who's just there to not make mistakes.

You can look at stats all you want and poke holes in the argument, but Jake Delhomme has never been anything more than an average starting QB.. and expecting him to be anything more is just failure. At this point he's playing so badly that he can't even be expected to fulfill the base expectations of a "game manager"

The gunslinger mentality comes from his tendency to heave the ball down the field and pray that Steve Smith comes up with it. Just because he used to come up with it doesn't make it a good decision then, and a bad decision now. It's still a prayer.

[Cyberjag]

Orton qualifies as a game manager, Cutler qualifies as a gunslinger correct? Lets look at the numbers.

Orton: 124 comp 194 Atts 1465 yds 63.9% comp 9 TD 1Int

Cutler: 110 comp 172 atts 1201 yds 64% comp 10 TD 7 Int.

Don't think think you have to throw the ball more to be a gunslinger, but Orton takes less risks and protects the ball more. Where as Cutler takes big risks (throwing into double coverages, etc) and gets big rewards.

I think we all agree that Delhomme takes more risks than not.

Delhomme is not a game manager, he's a gunslinger, whether you wish he was or not.

It's not about wishing he was, I just don't think he's good enough to be considered one. And I don't think much of Cutler, to be honest. What has he ever done to be considered a gunslinger?

[Jaxel]

Like they said, I think it's that mentality. Taking the risk, making the dangerous throws into double coverage, heaving downfield instead of looking for the check down. That's what Favre, Cutler and Jake do more than not. We all wish Jake checked down more, that's a constant wish by the people here, but he does not, because he's looking for that big play, not just that chain moving play.

[thefuzz]

I think that we may need more words to describe QB's.

Elite/Franchise, Gunslinger, Game Manager, Backup at best, would be my choices.

Jake has gone from Gunslinger, to Backup at best...in the course of a year....pretty sad.

1. Elite/Franchise QB's are the ones out there that your team will never sit, take out of a game, or be booed off the field. They are not able to be replaced.

Brady, Rivers, Manning 1, and Brees, right now.

2. Gunslingers are QB's that have tons of talent, but seem to take too many risks with the football. They can make you happy and sad in the course of a minute. Too good to sit, to risky to put the game on their shoulders all the time.

Favre, McNabb, Cutler, Rodgers, Roethlisberger.

3. Game Managers, are QB's who can on a good day beat anyone in the league with a good run game and a opportunistic Defense. They can play for years, may can't make all of the throws, but can make enough to play the position, and they don't make costly mistakes all that often.

Pennington, Flacco (until next year), Bulger (age), Garcia.

4. Backup at best. Starters who either played at a high level at one point, but at this stage are either physically or mentally not up to the task of playing at that level anymore. Or starters, who just are not good, but probably got picked up in high in the draft.

Russell, Collins, Delhomme,

There are other describing words out there, but you can find a place for most of the starters in those 4.

[Cyberjag]

2. Gunslingers are QB's that have tons of talent, but seem to take too many risks with the football. They can make you happy and sad in the course of a minute. Too good to sit, to risky to put the game on their shoulders all the time.

I think you and I are close, I just think that they need to have tons of talent to survive in the NFL if they want to be gunslingers.

I love Jake and what he's done. I think he's been great for the franchise, and I truly believe he's the best QB we've ever had on our roster. But what I've admired about him are his intangibles. I've never thought he had the talent to carry the team, he needs three quarters to warm up before he can do that.

To me, gunslinger is an honorific. He hasn't earned it.

[goodoleboy]

I think you and I are close, I just think that they need to have tons of talent to survive in the NFL if they want to be gunslingers.

I love Jake and what he's done. I think he's been great for the franchise, and I truly believe he's the best QB we've ever had on our roster. But what I've admired about him are his intangibles. I've never thought he had the talent to carry the team, he needs three quarters to warm up before he can do that.

To me, gunslinger is an honorific. He hasn't earned it.

I think we differ in that you consider Gunslinger to be a higher classification than Game Manager. I consider them equal.

[ClawOn]

As pointed out, the connotations of either indicate execution at some level. He's simply done. It happens.

I guess I could agree to call him a Poo Flinger. I could see Jake horrifying soccer moms at the local zoo with his poo thrown in their general direction. Sadly, he's mainly miss.

[Cyberjag]

I think we differ in that you consider Gunslinger to be a higher classification than Game Manager. I consider them equal.

Probably right. I go with Polian's definition--everyone starts as a game manager, it's the most basic part of the job. And that may be where I'm different.

[Dpantherman]

this is the definition of Game Manager that i've argued before. its spot on. and thats what Jake is supposed to be. he was never THE QB - except in the SB, which was his best performance ever as a QB.

[thefuzz]

I think you and I are close, I just think that they need to have tons of talent to survive in the NFL if they want to be gunslingers.

I love Jake and what he's done. I think he's been great for the franchise, and I truly believe he's the best QB we've ever had on our roster. But what I've admired about him are his intangibles. I've never thought he had the talent to carry the team, he needs three quarters to warm up before he can do that.

To me, gunslinger is an honorific. He hasn't earned it.

I understand what you are getting at.

I think that you earn Elite/Franchise, and are given gunslinger, if thats the way/style that you play. But I totally see your point.

[ChucktownK]

Opposing team statbringer or Game Manager?

Fixed!