Gunslinger or Game Manager?

[Cyberjag]

Delhomme is a gunslinger. He's not a game manager, and never has been (nor should he be) :nonod:

You're going to have to come up with some definitions we agree on, because as far as I'm concerned you couldn't be more mistaken here. I think this is an interesting enough discussion to merit it's own topic.

Most quarterbacks are characterized as either gunslingers or game managers. I think on that we can agree. Any quarterback, regardless of whether you characterize him as a gunslinger or a game manager, can throw a lot of interceptions and stink up the joint. I think on that we can agree as well. And no quarterback is 100% in either category 100% of the time.

So people say you're either a gunslinger or a game manager, you can play great or you can suck, and it's a tendency and not a strict definition.

With that, let's look what what each one looks like. And this post just defines the terms in my world, I think the whole purpose of this thread should be to get the definition out there so we're all on the same page.

First of all, to quote Bill Polian, "Every quarterback is a game manager, it's what the job is all about." Every quarterback is a game manager. Think about that for a minute. That means that if you're a gunslinger, it's built on a foundation of game management. So at some point, you cross a line where you're considered more of a gunslinger than a game manager.

Game management is fundamental. You can't have your quarterback out there doing whatever the hell he wants, he has to read the defense, manage the clock, call out plays, call audibles based on what he sees, and tell the offense what's going to happen. The quarterback's primary and fundamental job is to manage the offense. Good ones also provide a lot of presence and leadership, but that's still part of the basic job.

What makes a Gunslinger? Rather, what earns you the title of Gunslinger? Well, a lot of football glossaries give a pretty simple definition--a quarterback who plays with an aggressive and decisive manner by throwing a lot of deep, risky passes. But that's oversimplifying things. Does that definition mean that any quarterback out there who chucks up a few 30 yard bombs a game is a gunslinger? That would encompass 90% of the quarterbacks in the league. Especially when you're looking at the fourth quarter.

To be a gunslinger, you need to be aggressive. Check. You need to be decisive. Check. You need to be willing to take risks. Check. But there's more to that, isn't there? You need to throw a lot, and you need to be the kind of quarterback who thinks pass first, run second. How many gunslingers are content to throw it 15-20 times a game? You need to be willing to toss it down the field at any time, and you need to look at rifling the ball into coverage on a frozen rope. There's that confidence. Most of all, you need to look to put the outcome of the game on your arm from the opening whistle, to let the run complement your passing and to have the "I'm outscoring the other guy" mentality. That's your gunslinger--an aggressive, decisive, prolific risk taker who takes it on himself to decide the outcome of the game.

A game manager is someone who just takes the fundamental responsibility of the quarterback and plays within it. This guy is more of a team player in the classic sense. As Polian said, every QB is a game manager. That's how you start your career, you go out there and hand the ball off and trust your defense. Game manager is often used to describe an aging QB who's lost a little, or one that doesn't throw for a lot of yards TDs. And its important to note that just because you're managing the game, you're not immune to bad decision making or turning the ball over. Every QB in the league does that, and some do it a lot more than others. And just because you're a game manager, you're not limited to 20 five yard passes per game--you're allowed to air it out.

When Brett Favre started out in Green Bay, he managed the game--hand the ball off to Vince Workman and Darrell Thompson and trust his defense (easy to do when you have Reggie White, right?). Then as he gained experience, he became the identity of first the offense and then the team, and he established his gunslinger credentials. Go look at his passing statistics in his Green Bay years, they take a real jump after his first two years in the league. And go look at him now, is he still playing like a gunslinger or is he back to fundamental game management?

Gunslingers are bold, decisive, aggressive, and consistent at it. You're talking about raising your passing game to another level when you become one. They earn the title because they're able to go very vertical very successfully and sustain it. They put the ball 30 yards down the field where only their guy can get it over and over, because they can. They earn it because they can throw 30-40 times a game with regularity and make defenses suffer, even though everyone knows it's going to be a pass. We're talking about Brady, Manning, Warner, and Brees types of guys right now.

Speaking of Warner, he aired it out in St. Louis and earned his Gunslinger credentials as the leader of the Greatest Show on Turf. Then he went to New York and got hurt and managed the game for a few years before rediscovering his arm in Arizona. Then you have guys like Phillip Rivers, who seem to be on the verge of being able to pass with alacrity, caring little for what the defense wants to do and imposing his own will on the game. I can't think of a single gunslinger out there who hasn't also been referred to as a Franchise Quarterback.

Then you have quarterbacks who turn the ball over a lot because of stupid decisions or poor accuracy. That's not a gunslinger, it's a bad quarterback or a good quarterback playing poorly. And a game manager who consistently tries to play like a gunslinger rarely gets a full season to do so. An offensive coordinator who calls on his quarterback to throw the ball 30+ times per game and mixes in a lot of deep balls better hope he has a real gunslinger, or he'll end up with a lot of turnovers.

That may be what's happening in Carolina right now. Fortunately for Jake, he's got a record of success that he can fall back on. Just imagine if Jake was in his first or second year and was playing this way, would he have the same trust of the coaching staff and his fellow players? Odds are he would be looking for a new job next year. And if he continues to turn it over like he has, he still may be. And that goes for anyone who tries to play like a gunslinger but can't. True gunslingers only last if they're successful.

Jake Delhomme is successful when he relies on the running game and defense. Aside from one season in 2005, he has never, ever been able to put the entire success of the team on his arm. He plays in an offense that requires a vertical game, and he leads it well. But every time the run breaks down early and he's called on to carry the team we lose. He's a game manager in almost every sense of the word, just like most starting quarterbacks, but he's not a gunslinger because he simply lacks the skill.

That doesn't mean the OC doesn't call long plays--he does and they're part of the offense. But it's irresponsible to designate someone as a gunslinger just because they're reckless with the ball. A gunslinger is someone who can be reckless and get away with it. That's never been Jake, at least not in the first three quarters.

Looking at his stats, I readily concede that his fourth quarter rating in games where he doesn't throw more than 30 times is pretty damned impressive. And we all know how many comebacks he's engineered, and we all remember the beautiful long passes he's thrown late in games. If he could mirror his fourth quarter performances in the first three, then he would be a perennial all-pro and there would be no doubt that he would carry the gunslinger honorific.

But he can't. So he doesn't get it. And while I really like and admire Jake, I don't think it's fair to him to expect him to play like one. I would also add that to say he's a gunslinger and then turn around and say he's not any good is just kind of backwards to me. And this may give you an idea of why I'm comfortable with him right now--if Davidson stops asking him to play like someone he's not we have a great chance of winning more than we have been--isn't the consensus here that we need to run more and call higher percentage passing plays?

I would like to believe we're dealing more with a question of semantics here. Tell me what you think a gunslinger is, and what separates them from a game manager. Because if it's anything close to my definition, I think you've really missed the boat on this.

[SMACKDAB]

I really wish there was one more thread started on this so I could make a final decision.

Have to get back with you after thread 100,982,820......thanks.

[Jangler]

He's a Gunager. Maybe he's a Manslinger. Of course that might mean something different in some circles....lets go with Gunager

[goodoleboy]

Jake is a gunslinger. Problem is currently he is only packing 22 caliber bullets.

[Cyberjag]

Can some of you geniuses tell me if you're basing the decision on anything other than the number of interceptions Jake has thrown?

[SMACKDAB]

Can some of you geniuses tell me if you're basing the decision on anything other than the number of interceptions Jake has thrown?

Can the genius on the other end tell me how you start a thread about what Jake is, and not understand why people talk about his interceptions as of late??

WTF? :confused:

[Cyberjag]

I guess you didn't bother reading the original post before you commented.

Think Jake is capable of lighting up any defense on any day? I don't. But yet, people persist in calling him a gunslinger.

[Cyberjag]

this post just defines the terms in my world, I think the whole purpose of this thread should be to get the definition out there so we're all on the same page.

This should make it easy for you. Don't bother reading what I wrote, just tell me what makes someone a gunslinger versus a game manager. Maybe back it up with a little explanation.

I'm sick of arguing with people who might be using a different dictionary and want to know what you're thinking.

[Zod]

Delhomme currently is neither. He is just a bad QB.

[Jangler]

Game management is fundamental. You can't have your quarterback out there doing whatever the hell he wants, he has to read the defense, manage the clock, call out plays, call audibles based on what he sees, and tell the offense what's going to happen. The quarterback's primary and fundamental job is to manage the offense. Good ones also provide a lot of presence and leadership, but that's still part of the basic job.

What makes a Gunslinger? Rather, what earns you the title of Gunslinger? Well, a lot of football glossaries give a pretty simple definition--a quarterback who plays with an aggressive and decisive manner by throwing a lot of deep, risky passes. But that's oversimplifying things. Does that definition mean that any quarterback out there who chucks up a few 30 yard bombs a game is a gunslinger? That would encompass 90% of the quarterbacks in the league. Especially when you're looking at the fourth quarter.

Based on those two definitions, he is neither. He is a warm body holding the spot until we get a new QB or finally start Moore.

[Cyberjag]

Delhomme currently is neither. He is just a bad QB.

Bad QB or a QB playing bad? I think that was Gantt's question.

Even when he's good I don't think he's much more than a game manager, and reading my definitions I think you know why. Just curious to know if I'm on the same page as anyone else.

[SMACKDAB]

This should make it easy for you. Don't bother reading what I wrote, just tell me what makes someone a gunslinger versus a game manager. Maybe back it up with a little explanation.

I'm sick of arguing with people who might be using a different dictionary and want to know what you're thinking.

No...I read ALL of your post, and I understand what you are saying. At the same time you have to comprehend responses that you started with this thread.

No argument here, but you can't expect to surface this topic once again without people talking about Jake's interceptions....PERIOD! Now you want to be a temperamental ass because you don't like people's responses to a topic that has been discussed more than Jon and Kate, and their kids.

That is what my response was about, still is about, and it really doesn't matter because he sucks period.

[Cyberjag]

No...I read ALL of your post, and I understand what you are saying. At the same time you have to comprehend responses that you started with this thread.

No argument here, but you can't expect to surface this topic once again without people talking about Jake's interceptions....PERIOD! Now you want to be a temperamental ass because you don't like people's responses to a topic that has been discussed more than Jon and Kate, and their kids.

That is what my response was about, still is about, and it really doesn't matter because he sucks period.

Ok, I misinterpreted your response. I thought you accidentally decided to change the topic, I didn't think it was on purpose.

Jake's been throwing interceptions left and right. To me, that makes the argument that he's no gunslinger even more compelling. The fact that he's even asked to throw the ball deep at all right now just boggles my mind. It's never been his game, and I don't understand why it is now, just like I don't understand the run/pass distribution earlier this year. It's the kind of game you call when you HAVE a gunslinger, and I maintain we don't and never have.

[goodoleboy]

To my thinking gunslinger has more to do with attitude than the success/failure of a play. Gunslingers are the guys who will try to force it into coverage. Game managers will throw it away given the same situation.